vinylester infusion basics ?

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by fcfc, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. fcfc
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 779
    Likes: 29, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: france,europe

    fcfc Senior Member

    Infusing gelcoated hull.


    From what I understood, you can wet laminate one or two layer of CSM on the gelcoat. And only after hardening, you can put the dry fiber, and process for the infusion.

    Is there a way to get rid of that intermediate wet lamination , keeping good surface aspect , and good bonding for the gelcoat ?


    The structural lamination may be 1.2kg biaxial glass,2mm soric lrc, 1.2kg biaxial glass up to 2.4kg/3mm/2.4kg. And the soric lrc to be the infusion media.

    Thanks.
     
  2. latman
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 56
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: Australia

    latman Junior Member

    LRC prints badly (surface aspect?) on lightweight laminates with my 200gsm plain fibre you may be "insulated" using 1.2kg fibre , TF is the best "surface aspect" (but slow to infuse) I think you can leave out the "tie layers" only if you want to save weight but you would need your resin to vertically penetrate a thick layer before it hits the Soric and flows horizontally.Remember the process of infusion increases your % fibre and therefore fibre print is likely worse.
     
  3. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 2,401
    Likes: 284, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 506
    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    Like latman said, print is an issue with infusion. One of the skin coats main functions is to reduce the amount of print.
     
  4. fcfc
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 779
    Likes: 29, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: france,europe

    fcfc Senior Member

    So, whatever the resin you use for infusion, you need a skincoat ?

    For polyester, you need a VE skincoat for osmosis and printthru.
    For epoxy, ( http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fi...t-building/infusion-q-30590-8.html#post440626 ), you need it for gelcoat compatibility.

    And for VE resin, you still need it for printthru.

    But do you still need a peelply for skincoat if VE infusion ?

    How long do you have to wait before placing dry fiber, before apply vacuum, before resin flow ? Or is it the opposite, do you have a maximum time not to go over for the infusion resin if you want a good bond between skincoat and infusion ?

    Thanks.
     
  5. latman
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 56
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: Australia

    latman Junior Member

    I would personally use a regular VE with CSM for the tie or skin coat one day, then next day load all your materials and infuse with VE ASAP (but do a test using all ingredients before !!!) I would not put peelply on the skincoat but i would inspect it after curing with a piece of sandpaper and knock off any protruding fibres.
     
  6. fcfc
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 779
    Likes: 29, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: france,europe

    fcfc Senior Member

  7. susho
    Joined: Dec 2006
    Posts: 88
    Likes: 6, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 78
    Location: the Netherlands

    susho Composite builder

    Skin coat with peel ply gives the best adhesion. VE gives a lot of print, so 2 layers of csm is a usefull adittion. Vinylester infused boats often get sanded and spray painted here if a top surface quality is needed.
     
  8. fcfc
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 779
    Likes: 29, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: france,europe

    fcfc Senior Member

    But where is the point to use a mold, if later you need fairing ? Also paint do not last as long as gelcoat.

    And the problem of peel ply in the whole hull, is that you need man hours to put it, and man hours to remove it.
     
  9. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,618
    Likes: 89, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1240
    Location: The Netherlands

    Herman Senior Member

    The print-free boats that I see here, usually have a 225 gr CSM and a 450 gr CSM as skin coat. It also makes it possible to walk in the mould.
     
  10. fcfc
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 779
    Likes: 29, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 399
    Location: france,europe

    fcfc Senior Member

    675 gr CSM hand wetted at 0.3 makes 2.2 kg per m², + gelcoat. Roughly 3 kg/m² just for surface finish, no structural.

    Am I correct ???
     

  11. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,618
    Likes: 89, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1240
    Location: The Netherlands

    Herman Senior Member

    Yes, that is correct.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. Bilf
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    5,958
  2. ImaginaryNumber
    Replies:
    26
    Views:
    6,128
  3. burke
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    2,297
  4. makobuilders
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    2,118
  5. midcap
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    3,424
  6. FishStretcher
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    3,229
  7. DennisRB
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    3,514
  8. keith66
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,648
  9. idkfa
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,772
  10. kapnD
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    1,876
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.