Vinylester & Carbon

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by idkfa, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. idkfa
    Joined: Sep 2005
    Posts: 329
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 79
    Location: Windward islands, Caribbean

    idkfa Senior Member

    Both Columbia Yachts and McConaghy have new VE-carbon boats.

    Surely they are not using csm between the layers???

    I've seen this done with fibreglass, is this "normal"?

    Should one think of VE more like PE or Epoxy? Is it an adhesive or just bonds well to itself? Or it depends on the VE?
     
  2. Eric Sponberg
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,005
    Likes: 210, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2917
    Location: On board Corroboree

    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Idkfa,

    There are a few different kinds of vinylester, some based on epoxy formulations, other based more on polyester formulations. Both types use styrene as the monomer in the chemical reaction when it cures, VE much more so than PE. That's part of what makes VE so sticky and impervious to liquids, like water, passing through it. VE, besides being more sticky, is also just not very porous. To use it with carbon fiber is not unheard of, and care should be taken to assure that the carbon fiber is "sized" (i.e. coated) properly so that the resin will stick to it. All composite fabrics are sized with a sizing material, and most carbon fiber is sized to be compatible with epoxy resins. So you get the best marriage of VE and carbon fiber is the VE is one that is based on epoxy chemistry.

    No, I very much doubt that there would be mat between the layers of carbon fiber.

    Eric
     
  3. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,618
    Likes: 89, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1240
    Location: The Netherlands

    Herman Senior Member

    If shrinkage of the VE is limited, (it usually is) there is no real need for CSM, especially if multiaxials or UDs are used, which do not generate large resin rich spots. With infusion you are even better, as resin rich spots are even more prevented.

    Also see this PDF file, which has some info on different sizings.

    My supplier for carbon multiaxials (http://www.multiaxialfabricselcom.com/) stocks a type suitable for polyester, and a type suitable for epoxy. VE is on request.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. idkfa
    Joined: Sep 2005
    Posts: 329
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 79
    Location: Windward islands, Caribbean

    idkfa Senior Member

    Thanks guys, considering this for it is compatible with gel-coat in a mould.
     
  5. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    For just plain hand laminating using fabfrics i always use a 225 gram csm between to help tie the just resin layer between the layers . even with a good quality Vinylester !! This helps when it comes to shear and have never been able ever to simply peel layers when csm is used . Peelablity is a good test of resin strength
    Its amazing how easy some resins are able to simply peel the layers of fabrics of just glass without any csm between ,its down right scarey infact!!.:confused::eek:
     

  6. Herman
    Joined: Oct 2004
    Posts: 1,618
    Likes: 89, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1240
    Location: The Netherlands

    Herman Senior Member

    Using fabrics and hand laminating, yes. Using multiaxials and infusion, no.

    Many multiaxial producers offer their multiaxial with 150 gr.m2 CSM for hand laminating with low shrink resins.
     
Loading...
Similar Threads
  1. ImaginaryNumber
    Replies:
    26
    Views:
    7,660
  2. burke
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    2,716
  3. makobuilders
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    2,445
  4. midcap
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    4,091
  5. FishStretcher
    Replies:
    15
    Views:
    3,580
  6. DennisRB
    Replies:
    7
    Views:
    3,822
  7. keith66
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    1,842
  8. fcfc
    Replies:
    10
    Views:
    2,216
  9. kapnD
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    2,108
  10. Bilf
    Replies:
    13
    Views:
    6,540
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.