vinyelester resin

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Cat Nap, Apr 28, 2015.

  1. Cat Nap
    Joined: Feb 2015
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    Cat Nap Junior Member

    Is there a reason why vinyelester resin is not used in boat building. It appears to be less expensive than epoxy but with similar charesterics.
     
  2. dougfrolich
    Joined: Nov 2002
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    dougfrolich Senior Member

    Vinylester is used in quality boatbuilding. See Wyliecat.com
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Why do you think vinylester resin isn't being used?
     
  4. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    It's very common. Unless you are talking about using it over wood.
     
  5. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    I mostly know about multi hulls and you see it in the better more expensive boats. Maine Cat, Chris White Atlantic series, the old Mantas and Condor tris were/are vinyl. Most modern boats have an outer coat of vinylester on the hulls to curtail osmosis and blisters. Because most of the cat builders also have a mono division I expect that the build is similar. The reason that you don't see it much is that it costs more.
    You will see more vinyl boats than epoxy because it's even more expensive. Gunboat is the only cat builder that I know of that uses epoxy and you will pay for that. However, epoxy is very common for home built boats.
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    It is probably worthwhile for people using these various resins to also factor in the relative toxicity of them, to those exposing themselves. I don't know what the long-term risks might be. I always proceeded on the basis that vast numbers of people have been exposed to polyester resins, and they don't seem to drop like flies, even after decades of occupational expopsure, so my more occasional forays into it, were probably not something to be too worried about. VE, I don't know if the same applies.
     
  7. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    waikikin Senior Member

    VE certainly smells more toxic, best to try to keep chemicals, dust etc out of the system, not always possible though. Sometime the boatyard cocktail of exposure includes solvents, paints/overspray, resins & fume- filler powders, dusts, glass, ceramic, timber- spangling glass fiber so pretty in the shafts of sunlight coming through the skylights, metals, weld fumes, burnt paint, chromates, grinding & blasting dust with media & surface coatings, molds/fungus, fetid bilges full of old seasick & dead seagulls-rotting crustacia/ barnacles and similar, bird poo, lagging/gaskets/packing/tiles- origin/type, grease, fuels, oils, creosote......... lucky they leave all that off the glossy recruitment poster.......
    maybe mixed with a few ciggies too, my first supervisor advised taking up smoking if working in glass- to take the taste away, I'm sure he genuinely believed it as demonstrated, was from SA & may have believed the world flat amongst other stuff..

    time to retire.. in a few years

    I gave up composites style work for around six-seven years pre & during family additions, you just never know what may be, went sailing/cruising at the start & then trad timber work & sail instruction then into steel fab at the end, now I organise, watch & encourage....

    Jeff
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    yes, there are multiple risks in a lot of materials used in boats. For example, Ozone from arc welding is very toxic, I haven't seen many healthy-looking boilermakers, but with good gas-shielded welding equipment may be not such a problem these days. It is best also to spend up on good respirators, and whatever different filters are available, suited to the different hazards, sanding, painting etc. In hot climates there is an inclination to ditch such equipment because it can be uncomfortable to wear. But seeing people with faces whitened by dusts, suggests to me their practices are too casual. Just the other day I was speaking to a bloke who has worked for a few years with a water supply utility, and has been down quite a few manholes along the roadways, often mixing up tiny batches of concrete in the course of making repairs. Working without a respirator, and just the cement dust, has dusted his lungs, and he only found out when he got a nasty chest cold, couldn't breath, and went off to hosptal.
     
  9. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    As others have said VE is very common these days with builders of quality production boats wheras very few are built with epoxy and many of those that claim epoxy are really built with VE but they can make the claim somewhat honestly (although deceptive) because VE is often sold as vinylester/epoxy by the actual manufacturer. Personally I prefer using VE over 100% solids epoxy because in infusion I don't need to have the vacuum pump running forever. I work winters as a sub contracter at a fairly large marina that does a lot of repair work and we use VE instead of PE exclusively despite the extra cost. I think it is actually false economy for builders to use PE in their hulls because when the boat shows up at the marina for commissioning the owner always has the extra expense of having the marina barrier coated before its first bottom paint and it never ends up with as smooth a bottom as the straight out of the mold gelcoat, this extra step is not really necessary with a VE or epoxy build. There is no reason to spend the extra money on VE for the deck or interior furniture so we are only talking more expensive resin for the hulls and nowadays many builders are using resin infusion and achieving much better fiber fractions so resin consumption is less also so although I have not run the numbers I suspect there is not as much cost difference between a VE hull without epoxy barrier coat and a PE hull with profesionally applied barrier coat.

    Steve.

    Steve.
     
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  10. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    I forgot to mention that the older Lagoon TPI 42s were vinylester build. I think the L37 and L35 TPI built boats were vinyl also.
    Also Seawind cats uses vinyl in some or all of the current models.
     
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