Vendee Globe 2012

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Apr 6, 2012.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  2. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    more here:
    http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/...er-sanso-in-his-liferaft-awaiting-rescue.html

    damn... i hope he is well...
     
  3. capt vimes
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    capt vimes Senior Member

    sanso is safe at the azores after being rescued by helicopter:
    from:
    http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/newswire/12139/javier-sanso-is-safe-and-sound-in-the-azores.html

    nothing so far on what caused the capsize, although unconfirmed messages stated some twitter news that a keel loss should have been the cause...
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  5. EvanStufflebeam
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    EvanStufflebeam Junior Member

  6. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    Another broken keel?

    It's a good thing they shaved off those extra grams of weight where it was needed.



    Seriously, they should just establish a robust standard for the mast stepping and keel components. Saving X amount of weight is not worth risking someone's life.
     
  7. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    The canting, motorised keel is near finished and discredited. Time to move on to the next revolution - take a guess?
     
  8. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Well Jean-Pierre Dick has finished in 4th place, covering more than 10% of the race distance without his keel, so perhaps the next evolution of the class would be to just forget the keels, load up the water ballast and sail it like a dinghy for 80 days !
    (All above said in jest, an amazing acchievement none the less, which should probably not be attempted too often..)
     
  9. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Jesting aside, Steve, but there is some truth in what you're saying. Jean-Pierre Dick has shown it can be done.
    For example and sorry to hark back to the Kiwi light brigade of the late 1970's but those monohull designs then were just large dinghies with daggerboards (plus internal ballast). And they terrified/angered everyone (not meaning the crews, laughs) but the conventional thinkers? of the times.
    So what's the difference of say, a real lightweight 60 carrying water ballast and highly efficient foils (meaning near vertical and near horizontal examples to leeward to counter leeway and added righting moments) - then because the boat is say 60% of an IMOCA's weight, reduced sail area for the same amount of power and ... no stupid prone to damage, prone to snap off canting keel, powered by a continually running stinker carrying a huge load of fuel.
     
  10. tomas
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    tomas Senior Member

    Actually, no. He had to carefully make his way to a port that was sheltered from the conditions that put him at risk for capsizing without his keel. He also risked being disqualified by unsealing his engine in order to safely navigate his way to a mooring. Then, he had to wait for favorable conditions to make his way to the finish line.

    He could not have finished the race otherwise.
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    I think Dick(and the other keel failures) has started people thinking. Maybe on-deck moving ballast along with DSS and a fixed very small keel?

    dinghy version? :
     

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  12. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    How do you right it after it is turtled by a huge Southern Ocean wave?

    How about a normal fixed keel with a DSS foil?

    If the DSS foil breaks off, the boat can still be safely sailed.

    May not be as fast as a canting ballast, but those need motors and/or engines, while underway, anyway, and should be banned for that reason alone.

    Even though they have sailed around world, I don't see them as particularly seaworthy. Their is too big of probability of catastrophic failure.
     
  13. motorbike
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    motorbike Senior Member

    Here's a radical idea, why not use a fixed keel!!!! Gee if they all did that then I can almost guarantee that the 15% keel failure rate would drop to zero and the boats would still be matched speedwise with each other and guess what- the viewing public couldnt give a rats 'cause the boats still have garish racing colours etc. Do you really think the general public cares if F1 cars blow hot exhaust on their rear tires to generate downforce or if it gets banned! Just like with the keels NO ONE really cares except the members of the circle jerk that allow 15% keel failure in this race. With a few strokes of a pen those sailors would not have to deal with what I think is unacceptable risk.
     
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  14. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    Well, I wasn't heading into pedantic territory, Tomas, meaning picking a mooring site with the motor running and claiming foul - but the fact that Jean-Pierre Dick sailed a very large distance in a boat that required a keel - without the bloody keel - and that taking this a little further, looking to the future, how about a monohull designed with DSS and anti leeway foils, plus water ballast, with a lower rig, but same power, and similar righting moment carrying the DSS to the pendulum setup - taking over as a replacement for these prone to failure canters. Cheers.
     

  15. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    The one problem with this approach is the boat is more likely to stay turtled if turtled, as the fixed ballast is not likely to be sufficient to right it.

    I think the biggest mistake in development of the 'open' classes (starting with the OSTAR and BOC races) was not stipulating a fractional limit of movable ballast measured against fixed ballast. I once suggested a 1:2 ratio of movable to fixed.

    But now we have 'keel boats' that can flirt with 30 kts, or go even faster.

    There just isn't any going back now, unless you define these boats out of being 'pure sail boats', due to need of a motor of some kind to move the ballast.

    That's not likely to happen either.

    Billing all the racers for the costs of rescuing the few, through making them buy expensive 'rescue insurance' plans (based on the rescue costs of the last race) might move the incentives a tad away from speed at any costs.

    Just a thought.
     
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