V8 fuel pump plate

Gonzo your link shows just 'one' fire on board a leasure canal cruiser in 2007

Lindy Lou had a fire,--- no information about the cause .

Could have been a cooking fire.

All the rest reports fires on passenger cruisers and cargo vessels.

I was refering to small ski boats as the poster has built.

 

I know where you are coming from Frosty I am a member http://www.cmba-uk.com/ and know all the boats you are talking but as classic boats built that way the insurance companies let it be the same way a vintage car does not have to have seat belts if it was built before 1966, my boat is considered a new boat even though it's built in the old style the same rules apply as if I was building a kit car it has to be of todays road/marine safety standards.

Thanks mreoe4sure, so it's a vent pipe than goes from the carb to the fuel pump and not so much an overflow pipe. I have the pipes from the rockers to the flame arrestor and will sort out some spreaders for the covers.

My legs will be alongside the the engine when it's running and I would like to hang onto them as long as I can so anything that keeps them from going up in smoke is good for me even if it's a one in a million chance of happening I don't want to take that chance, they said it was a one in a million chance of it raining here every day for 3 months and guess what

 

I was going to give up on this thread but no-- I will have another go. I will try to get over the point. The boat of yesteryear were boats of today then , ie they were not classic when they were built and they still did not set of fire. Come to think of it ive never seen a classic car on fire either.

The flash proof starters and alternators of USA may seem like they stopped boats setting on fire but how do you know if none have? They may well have had none as have UK and until im given credible links to information proofing that there was, then there isnt. As the link I posted myself it suggest carelessness was the cause of fires.

Regulation are a way of modern life, setting up safety for the dumbest person on the planet.

For instance --you could not smoke withing 100 yds of a classic aircraft ( a small glowing ember of tobacco) yet when a spitfire or Lancaster starts up there are flames a foot long or more from exhausts noise and flames that I gaurantee will make you step backwards---no explosions!!!

As white pointer said there should be an element of survival and common sense which unfortunately is held in books these days but sitting with a V8 in between your legs is too much for me.


But if you are going down this safety road have you not a car starter on it --what about a marine alternator , Bilge blower, battery box keeping gasses clear and well secured. Bilge pumps etc etc

 

157 Fuel related explosions on pleasure craft occurred in 2011 in the USA, totaling over 4 million in damages, several deaths and hundreds of injuries. This is just what's be reported. This number is way down from previous years, mostly because the economic climate has retarded pleasure boating considerably in the last few years. These figures are about half of what they were just 10 years ago, except for fatalities which have held reasonably steady, mostly because of fairly new regulations and requirements asked of the manufactures, but also because boneheads tend to weed themselves from the gene pool naturally (think of it as mother nature's way of fixing stuff). The vessel lengths most likely to be involved were 14' to 22'. Most notable is the age of the vessels involved, with a 200% jump in likelihood of a fuel related explosion, if the boat was 1986 or older. This in itself is telling, as the Jim Bob/Joe Larry syndrome applies and back yard repairs are much more likely, with boneheads telling folks, "sure an automotive carb is just fine. I do it all the time and I'm still alive" (mother nature can't get all).

 

Incredible detail and accurate and precise,-- you have a link for this im sure?

Just one more fking time.--- I dont tell people to fit car carbs --the manufacturers did. AND SO DID I

Can your HEAR ME---- MANUFACTURERS fitted car carbs IN UK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no MARINE carb for a small Ford.

That means there isnt any, none available, you cant buy one, you cant fit one.

They came from the factory with CAR carbs on them. HELLO is this clear.

Do you know what the difference is?

Yes thats right--- ' Professional' boat builders made them with car engines with car carbs ---Geeezus

 

I don't know, nor particularly care what is done in other countries. I just know what's been done here and the effects of the requirements over the last half a century. The data is available through several sources; the USCG, NASBS, NTSB, CDC, etc. with varying levels of detail. I got this data from the USCG, but insurances companies to health care providers all compile it.

I can't speak for the UK, but having done a few EU compliant designs, I can tell you the back woods engineering stuff is going bye bye, pretty quickly. Simply put, if it can't be insured, it can't be sold, so you do what you want, but they don't arbitrary make these things up. More often than not a number of people have to die, before things get changed, which isn't especially tolerable, particularly if it's your family member that's just been injured or worse.

I would suspect the UK has the same level of data gathering as the US, so a quick search might be in order, though if you're correct in the automotive carb thing, the statistics should bear this out rather plainly. Simply put, in the 1950's most of the injuries and deaths related to small pleasure craft, were fuel related explosion and/or fire. Now this type of incident is well below 10% of the injuries/deaths associated to small pleasure craft. This isn't a statistical quirk, but a direct result of regulation.

 

You might of heard of this one..
late 80's in Mordialloc Creek, family in old clinker built petrol engine dangerous abomination, refuel, push off and then small boom but radiply expanding fire, being "new australians" can swim and scared of the water, so stay on boat thats 50' from the land and burn until some guys swim out others pushed boat alongside but throw people in the water, all bad burns all alive.
or this
Channel Nines Bertram burns to the water line out from StKilda marina..was on the news.

I was skiing at the bridgewater tournement and awoke one morning to the sound of the first boat cranking, cranking cranking then boom...a short silence then spash....wondering if I dreamt it or not so got out of tent and sure enough engine box floating down the river, crew in boat with no eyebrows...laughing as no fire
Ask any old folk about ski boats 50,60.70's all have a story and most ended up with outboards although saying that one year at Moomba a 225 Merc OB went up whilst cranking it, good fire no extinguishers, Barry Sutherland quick thinking jumps in a boat and does a slam turn right on it to throw a wave over it and puts it out.
Since mid 80's most ski boats in OZ have been sold with USCG spec engines and people are slowly learning what should be done to protect yourself from home made conversions
The state by state rules in OZ were close to non existant then unfortunately. Flame arrestor ( without a standard mind you) was about all specified
I have seen other ski racing boats go up and plenty more or worked on them after the fact.
The USA was miles in front of the rest of the world for years in this area of safety and standards which basically everybody has copied.

http://www.transportsafety.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/41123/Fire-in-the-hole.pdf
ski boat explodes 2000 hits on google
ski boat fire 117,000 hits

 

PAR
plenty of crap old british engines put in slow boats had up draft carburettors on inline engines just like they did in the vehicle..DOH

and for the sailors amongest us, I worked on a maxi that had Lewmars idea of hydraulics on it running everything and it had open solenoids on the powerpaks running the crap lucas starter motors they used on the pumps...thats where British thinking was in the late 80's

 

There was 1, 2 and 4 barrel carbs with marine mods for almost 50 years even Volvo worked that one out I guess the UK is on the otherside of the world from all that experience and knowledge, that would of course explain the British petrol marine engine business....was there ever one after the war?

 

i remember the boat going up in mordialloc creek and 1 recently where fuel was pumped into a rod holder and ignited as the boat left the marina. the bertram would have been marine compliant. a ski boat went up here last year but it had a mercruiser marine engine. a bilge blower would have saved it. i would prefer to know the vapor mix was to lean to ignite for my peace of mind.

 

yes the Bertram was compliant, no maintenance allowed the spin on fuel filters to rust through and then someone on board played for several hours and then the evidence was burnt
then again ever seen an explosion proof bilge blower in a boat and usually they are used to suck bilge and not blow clean air......

 

The British boat industry used the ubiquitous ford 1500 . there was no 1 or 2 barrel marine carb. We are not talking about Ford v8 monsters just 1500CC or even smaller.

The marine carb is similar to the auto carb in so much as the fuel bowl is vented to the fuel intake throat and any over flow is eaten by the engine. That is all.

Still no link or any professional written information on the terrible explosive petrol Uk boating industry.

PAR has admitted to not caring or knowing what is going on outside the USA. I suspect there are others locked in USA regulation.

 

Look there's a fair bit more to a marine cab then you apparently understand, besides bowl venting. The USA is the standard, if the rest of the world wants to catch, they can, if not, their industry statistics will indicate how far along they are. There's a very good reason engines and parts are built to US spec and ignoring the advantages and the statistics is well, silly.

What is it with people that think regulation is over reach. Everyone knows that manufactures would never pollute the air, poison the water, jeopardize their employees or customers, right? A little melamine in your milk can't hurt, maybe those pressure relief values on hot water heaters are just stupid and hell lets go back to gravity feed fuel tanks, because what's the worst that could happen. I'd rather buy a 16' extension ladder that hasn't met any standard, because when I'm 20' above a concrete slab, I figure I can just tuck and roll it off. Lets revive the economy and toss out all the expensive electric boxes and put knob and tube back. A few electrocuted people probably serves them right anyway.

I design structures every day, am quite glad I have a compliance rate and frankly you should be too, for every thing you touch, has had someone like me laughing at the silliness of "that's not they way we used to do it" mentality. Thank God . . . you're still alive as a result of us anal types.

 

have you not seen a spark proof bilge blower, just about every model on the market is and they can suck or blow. look them up and you will find plenty. marine starters and alternators aren't spark proof, the mesh just contains the fire if it ignites, if raw fuel runs into them from a leak they will burn the boat as good as a standard 1.

 

Im sure you can tell us what that is? You were the one that suggested the vent in the picture of Sean was too big for a fuel inlet ( you dont say) That is a breather from the base plate.

Im not prepaired to just listen to your opinions without a link/ Youve been here long enough to know better.

I know what I know, if you want to disagree you have to prove it.

Im not one of your employees that has to just do what you say.