V-Berth to Centerline

Hello all, I dig through this site whenever I'm working on a new project but here's a topic that is hard to turn up info on.

I'm a live-aboard on a 1976 36' Uniflite Sedan with a wife and dachshund. Great layout, huge salon, got lucky with the galley-down (usually just in the aft-cabins) but the V-berth is not the best thing I have ever seen. I have been looking at buying an aft-cabin to make up for this deficiency but I do like a lot of things about this boat - and it isn't easy to move a family between selling and buying. I also have a limit of 36' in my current berth (that I am already pushing to 38' with the swim platform.)

ISSUE: The V-berth weeps condensation onto any sheets that touch it. It is insulated and I have removed the damaged monkey fur, replacing it with vinyl flooring material that covers the insulation. I also installed a Frolis system under the high density foam to allow it to breathe - comfortable and better but still not perfect and the foam gets a bit moldy. I thought a queen berth in an inverted and rounded "A" design (pointed towards the stern) might get much of the bed away from the sides of the hull and possibly provide a little more useable space in the bow. Also I'm 6'3" - smaller boats do not love the tall ; ]

SOLUTION: Cutting the existing structure out after designing a new bed frame. I have heard of this being done on these boats but no pictures or details have surfaced. At first look the mid-frame cross-member is glassed onto both sides of the hull. I imagine it isn't required support as I have seen plenty of 38's with an angled double bed. Other than that there are a few items in there that would need to be removed - the step, a heater/air-con unit, the front teak panels of the existing frame (hopefully they could be re-used for something.)

Any thoughts, suggestions, links, photos would be extremely appreciated. There are a lot of pictures of this boat & design online but I can provide more as needed.

Cheers & thanks
John

 

Wow I would have thought someone here would have done this conversion .. very strange that no one has.

 

If you have a condensation problem get a dehumidifier and dry the air ! or get some ventilation in there !! while you sleeping you breathing out air with a lot of moisture into a confined space and hard smooth or shiny surfaces are perfect for moisture to condense on !!:idea:

 

Is the condensation coming from the sides and top of the liner only? Usually there will be a large amount of condensation between the bottom of the mattress and the bunk. That is the reason mattresses in houses have a foundation that is ventilated. If you have the headroom, a built up platform with wood slats will help a lot. Don't paint the wood so it will allow more moisture to pass through.

 

before you do anything else, get some ventilation in there... the occupants are probably the biggest source of the moisture problem.

 

Thanks for your input. There is signifigant ventilation under the mattress with the Froli system (the mattress rides on coils about 1" high when compressed). A dehumidifier is probably a good idsea though we generally sleep with the door open so I can't see much of it being a ventilation problem.

The main challenge I have is condensation from the sides of the boat above the water line (where there is insulation covered in vinyl). Temperatures are definitely a factor but there must be a solution of sorts.

 

Could be that the insulation is not uni-cellular so any air can pass through to the skin or 'cold' can pass through to the liner & permit condensation. The foam insulation (if foam) may be for a cushion purpose and not insulation. A quick test is to see if it holds water... if it does, replace it.
Ventilation needs cross flow to let air in... and out. Good reading is 'A warm, dry boat", by Roger MacAfee
And yes, I have been there done that...... nothing worse that sleeping in what could be called a chilly sauna. I don't know where you are cruising but my comments are based on cruising the PNW and Hawaii.

 

Good advice, thanks. Maybe the insulation is more for comfort, I will check on that. Is there a visual I can do as I seem to recall the insulation being covered in some sort of impervious material. I guess whatever Uniflite used back in 1976 is still with me.

I am in Vancouver so should be in pretty similar conditions [though I imagine you get about 50% more sun in Delta ; ]

 

it sounds like you are getting condensation on the side walls from the temperature difference. when warm moist air (from inside the cabin) touches the walls that are any cooler than the inside air temp, it cools the air at the surface and you get condensation. there is no way to stop it. You either need more insulation so the wall temp difference is not as large, or you need to have moving air so you evaporate the condensation off the side walls. rigging a fan is the easiest thing to do.

It has nothing to do with the surface finish on the walls, but rather the temp difference between the cabin air temp and the side walls. So you either reduce this temp difference (with more insulation), dry the air to get less condensation, or evaporate the moisture off the surface with moving air that is vented to outside the cabin.

 

Hi, yes I see it is condensation & I have had a number of boats in this environment so I know it's an issue here. I have accepted that there is no way to avoid contact with the walls and no effective way to make a fan work.

I see only two options:

1) the stock insulation is at least an inch thick but maybe there is a better type of insulation than stock? And how to get it to adhere to the fiberglass as well as the manufacturer.

2) resort to a re-model of the v-berth. My alternative was pulling out the existing structure and putting in a center-line queen.

I guess it's time for some photos.

 

Get A Dehumidifyer !!!!

use a dehumidifier !!!
the problem is the moisture in the air !! all the air that surrounds us has moisture so take the moisture away the air is dry and there's nothing to condense . will sure as hell cost less than ripping half the boat apart and take a fraction of the time !! try it for a short time you have everything to gain and nothing to loose !
I used to have the same problems with houses I worked in laying wooden floors specially in a basement .
You will be amazed at how much moisture it will draw out of everywhere and how much the smell changes and how much warmer its is simply because the air is dry not musty and damp
!!! just get one and try it for a couple of days

 

Wow - I can tell how heartfelt that post is with the massive fonts ;] I will go out today and buy a dehumidifier and give it a shot Tunnels ... let you know the result in a couple of days.

Cheers!

 

Not just a pretty face !!

Hi
I did post this once already !!
The secret to start with is to close the compartment totally including a towel along the bottom of the door and run the humidifier for a couple of days and totally get shot of all and any dampness that's there in everything ,bedding ,wall linings ,floor ,cupboards and draws ,etc etc open them all .
Check the tank after 4 hours and empty if need be and take note of the amount of water and see if the next 4 hours that amount of water in the tank is less and by how much .
It should get to the stage by the second day where there is almost no water in the tank at all .
A dehumidifier can be a God send believe me . they have saved my bacon on a few occasions !! dry air smells different to musty damp air that's for sure .

Ok now here's a tip probably no one has ever though of before !! if you have timber or sheets of ply or what ever that's damp and not properly dry you can use a dehumidifier to dry it !!
Lay down a sheet of plastic stack and fillet all your timber or what ever so air can get around all sides then cover and place the dehumidifier inside and totally seal the plastic so its air tight and run the dehumidifier on full after 6 hours open the bag where the humidifier is and empty the tank and reseal and run again . could take 3 days or 4 but it will dry you stack of timber . The advantage is its done simply by drying the air inside the bag !! the air is dry and the moisture will come out of the wet materials ! there's no heat involved so the timber doesn't end up splitting and twisting like it can if heat is used .
I have also saved Parquet and timber floors that have been flooded using this method as well . build a tent over the top seal it 100% completely round all sides and dehumidify it !! in a week its just about completely back to normal like nothing had ever happened !!
Can even dry cloths using the same method ! put cloths on hangers in a small room and set it going and as long as the room is 100% air tight your washing will dry with not one hassle !

 

Good info - thanks tunnels. I will give it a shot in a few areas of the boat. If it isn't the result we're looking for it then I'll look further for construction ideas around an offset (to starboard I imagine) or center-line queen in the bow.

If anyone has any measurements on Uniflite 38 forward cabins I'd love to see them as I think they may be the same as the 36, just with a different design. It's hard to judge where the put the extra 2 feet just by looking at photos (though I do like the fact that they also chose to remove the lower helm).

 

One of the best and least expensive things to fit to any boat is a solar fan to ventilate the air. Makes an amazing difference, winter and summer and is the answer for a boat on mooring or without dock power. If a more aggressive approach is wanted or needed, Tunnels has the answer. This works wonderfully if you have AC power at hand. Just make sure that the drain is open and cannot clog up. Changes cool and clammy to warm and dry.