using Partall wax and PVA

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by sunbelt57, May 15, 2012.

  1. sunbelt57
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Wyoming

    sunbelt57 Junior Member

    I've been practicing on some tile mirrors I got from HD. When applying the partall wax and buffing off I can buff it with a paper towel till I don't see any residue on the mirrors and spray some PVA and it seems to work fine but I'm wondering if I am removing all the wax. Should I apply more layers of wax? Should I leave some of the wax? Should I use something else to buff it off? I plan on using the practice pieces as flanges for my main project. What procedure to you guys use with waxing partall?
     
  2. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Here we go again !!
    If you are using pva you really dont need to wax at all !! :confused:
    just spray a fine coat of pva each time and allow to dry completely before gel coating !!. ;)
    What are you intending to be making ??:?:

    Go back to this and read !! it could help you a little more and give you a better understaning of using PVA!!
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/pva-mess-41668.html
     
  3. sunbelt57
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Wyoming

    sunbelt57 Junior Member

    No wax? OK I'll give it a shot. Sounds like mass deception/giant hoax on the part of the FG supply companies.
     
  4. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    there is nothing wrong in using wax !! nothing at all !!!
    Me i used to use ceara wax and was the best most reliable wax product on the market but over the years its harder to find any where .The advantage with Ceara was you could wax and gel coat straight away and never get fish eyes forming in the fresh gelcoat .
    TR wax is the most popular any place i have been .
    Little trick is to wipe on a fine coat that just leaves a smear coat only and rub into the surface then leave for 5 to 10 minutes and then lightly rubb and polish, leave for a hour between coats !!do this 3 or 4 times and should be ready to use immdiatly after the last time you a finished . Heavy wax coats do nothing at all just uses lots of product and wastes it !!
    A sponge pad slightly damp with water to apply the wax just the same as polishing your car !! but rub it into the surface round and round over and over again then let to dry !, and wipe it so it shines .
    I was a mould maker back in 1978 for 2 years making and repairing moulds full time ! an old guy i worked with showed me waxing and i have done ever since, works 100% and never had a failure .
    The pva trick was shown to me by another guy i worked with in 1986 and been using it in combination with wax!, its a sure fire trouble free method !!.
     
  5. variverrunner
    Joined: Dec 2009
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    Location: New York, USA

    variverrunner Junior Member

    sunbelt57

    I use a cheese cloth to quickly remove wax. You can buy it pretty cheaply at most grocery stores. It is more expense that paper towels but much much faster.

    I apply PVA by pouring a small amount (about 1 oz./ 20 sq ft.) into my mold and spreading it around with a sponge. I lightly spread the pva around as it evaporates. In a few minutes I have a nice smooth surface with zero orange peel.

    Good luck

    Allan
     
  6. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    ADD ON cheese cloth is the best for polishing with and if you drop it in the washing machine with some dishwashing detergent and hang it to dry afterwashing its even better and can keep doing that !
    Pour and spread is ok on small parts but a little hard on something big
    You can also dilute 50% with water and do the same thing, pour and spread could give a smoother finish !!:cool:
     
  7. sunbelt57
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Wyoming

    sunbelt57 Junior Member

    I bought something from Fibreglast.com called Fibrelease. It lets you skip the wax and PVA. Haven't tried it yet. Once I was waxing a plug with several coats like the instructions said and the 3rd or 4th coat wouldn't buff out. I went ahead and applied the PVA. It beaded up. Ended up ruining the plug because the FG stuck real bad. I'm going to experiment with wax only, PVA only and both. The project I'm working on is for a truck doors and hood. I plan on building a fishing kayak later on. This forum is the best I've found.
     
  8. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Need to reqad carefully

    Is that the product 1153 on the lable ?? you only need one coat! one coat is all , sound like a pva type product by the instructions . there are other releases as well that have silicone !!BEWARE !! yes they work and are really good BUT silicone does not have a good reputation in any industry . Personally i would stick with the wax and pva and forget the rest !! dont waste you money !!
     

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  9. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    I used old bath towels cut into 9" squares. Throw them in the washer and dryer and use over and over.

    I did pva the same way in canoe molds, but it was a ***** trying to keep a wet edge. About the time I was ready to break down in tears and give up for the fisheyes, that's when it would finally stay there nice and shiny.

    For tons of sponges, I had a defunct foam mattress I could cut any size I needed from, for small pieces to apply pva to large ones to get gallons of water out of something.
     
  10. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    The procedure you outlined is the one I've finally settled on for all my plug and mold work. Personally I like the idea of having a few coats of wax on any part I'm working on...especially on my layout table where drips, spills and splatters can happen. It just gives me that warm fuzzy feeling knowing that I "might" be able to save a part if something goes wrong.

    Yes, you can get away with just PVA (my buddy does it all the time), but sometimes things happen and I've seen him rip the top of of his layup table more then once. In my mind it's just not worth the hassle and expense of repairing that once perfectly smooth surface just because you didn't want to waste a few hours of your time.

    I like the idea of using mirror tiles to experiment on, but at the same time I think you should try using the same real world material that you'll use in your molding process. There's a big difference between a sheet of glass and say Melamine or fresh Gelcoat as far as porosity or reactiveness. You'll want to become familiar with whatever surface you've chosen for your plug or mold because in the end that's what going to make or break your project.

    Like most of the previous posters I too like using cloth for buffing, but after a month I had a pile of waxed rags that I couldn't use for anything else. Since I've always been a big fan of paper towels for everything I started using them instead, and the towel clutter has disappeared. This also gives me some piece of mind when it comes to cross contamination...because the last thing I can afford is to accidently wipe down a surface with what looks like a prefectly clean towel just prior to painting...opps.

    Good luck!
    Mike
     
  11. midnitmike
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Haines and Juneau

    midnitmike Senior Member

    Sam,
    It seems like I've tried just about every possible way to apply PVA and end up with a smooth surface...years ago I finally gave up thinking it must just be impossible. If you brush it on you leave brush strokes, foam brushes are better simply because the don't have bristles, but it's still not smooth. Foam pads work OK, and so does a damp lintless cloth but it's still not glass smooth, and that's what I was shooting for.

    After a lot of messing about I've finally settled on spraying as my application method of choice. I use a light mist coat first and let that tact off for a minute or two, then apply a second and third coat letting each one tack off in between, and finally a slightly heavier coat to get an overall wet layer. This is where you have to keep an eye out for runs or excess build-up in any low spots. If everything goes right you'll end up with the prettiest PVA skin you've ever seen, and the least amount of post part clean-up.

    Mike
     

  12. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    Somewhere else Tunnels describes how he does it, which sounds like it works real good.

    Years ago I read in Pro Boatbuilder another guys procedure which worked well for him. It was basically like yours , but only two coats. His way was to hold the gun back and shoot an even, slight mist coat out and let that dry. It would look real bad and was rough, like over spray. The second coat was a full coat. The first coat would dissolve and bond to the second and everything would flow out smooth and shiny, while at the same time the first coat kept an extra little bit of surface tension on the mold to prevent fish eyes.

    Here's Tunnel's method, complete with testimonials.

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/pva-mess-41668.html
     
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