Using Ethylene Glycol on rot damaged GRP covered stringers and bulkheads to arrest further decay

Just continue here.

Do not use glycol. You will never be able to get rid of that slimy ****.

If your boat is not so bad; now is a good time to fix it instead of running it to the ground.

And if you have ingress; you need to determine sources.
 
Just continue here.

Do not use glycol. You will never be able to get rid of that slimy ****.

If your boat is not so bad; now is a good time to fix it instead of running it to the ground.

And if you have ingress; you need to determine sources.

ok I’ve dropped the ethylene glycol thoughts. Thanks all for your thoughts.
I got hold of an article thanks to Brenden in this forum that showed the renovation of a Southwind SF20 (an older version of my boat). This was very helpful to understand the under deck structure.
The deterioration in my frame is nowhere near as bad as the boat in this article (yet) but there is dampness there.
In an attempt to reduce (not eliminate) the dampness what to you think of attaching an evacuation compressor near the site of the original water ingress (and seal it up to create a negative pressure in the wood? to draw the water back and reduce the moisture level in the wood frame?
Something like this 3 Gallon Vacuum Chamber and 4CFM 1720RPM 1/4HP transparent cover Pump Degassing | eBay https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-Gallon-Vacuum-Chamber-and-4CFM-1720RPM-1-4HP-transparent-cover-Pump-Degassing/223581398803?hash=item340e7d6713:g:RZYAAOSwwQ5dJUOk
 
I'm pretty sure you need to remove the moisture with heat,/ evaporation, which rises so make slots or holes at the high points ,use the sun, black plastic ,however you can heat the wet areas. This is like that game whack the mole when he pops his head up,.. ready.. The saturated timber may act like a sponge at night when cool so seal it temporarily until you can heat it again. An electric blanket ,electric fan heater. could help in difficult spots. Reinforcing the top and base of the transom with extra glass and pay extra attention to where it meets the hull sides. This is assuming you're not replacing the rotten timber, if you are don't cut the glass shear with the hull sides , leave one side and stubs on the side you remove, preferably the inside. Form ply has been used for this before, it needs the surface taken off a little to get mechanical grip, triple coat the edges/ any cuts with slow drying epoxy. When you're pretty sure all the moisture has gone and your glass is nearly finished get plenty of salt into the dodgy timber spots, Just a few thoughts ., I stopped reading the other posts ,..ha. good luck
 
I'm pretty sure you need to remove the moisture with heat,/ evaporation, which rises so make slots or holes at the high points ,use the sun, black plastic ,however you can heat the wet areas. This is like that game whack the mole when he pops his head up,.. ready.. The saturated timber may act like a sponge at night when cool so seal it temporarily until you can heat it again. An electric blanket ,electric fan heater. could help in difficult spots. Reinforcing the top and base of the transom with extra glass and pay extra attention to where it meets the hull sides. This is assuming you're not replacing the rotten timber, if you are don't cut the glass shear with the hull sides , leave one side and stubs on the side you remove, preferably the inside. Form ply has been used for this before, it needs the surface taken off a little to get mechanical grip, triple coat the edges/ any cuts with slow drying epoxy. When you're pretty sure all the moisture has gone and your glass is nearly finished get plenty of salt into the dodgy timber spots, Just a few thoughts ., I stopped reading the other posts ,..ha. good luck
Ah that is interesting. One of the concerns I had about the vacuum idea is that it would probably draw air into the damp timber thereby potentially exacerbating the problem. Salt could be a potential alternative to stop the rotting fungus?
With regard To the transom. When it is appropriate I probably wouldn’t muck around just replace it properly.
with regard to the heating ... that’s interesting ... I’m thinking your homes with some sort of enclosure over the boat with a heater and dehumidifier (for a long time) . What do you think?
 
This boat has pretty thick glassing around the ply frame so I’m loathed to rip it up if I can help it. The other option I was thinking of was to glass a new stringer and / or bulkhead next to the existing. Any thoughts on that?
 
I re read llan voyagers post and it is a well detailed description of the job required, you will get better access by cutting most of the outside glass off,but yes all that quality finish will need to be replicated. The nature of rot is that once dry the spores are active and searching for any dampness, salt will put them off. chlorine is another, but you may want to look up any chemical reaction that may occur,..like a bomb..ha .
Martin you have lots of research to do on this site and others.
If you are going to leave the rotten timber then you have to key in and lay plenty of woven matt over probably rovings/ unidirectional Glass laid across the transom top and bottom and around the outboard mounts, run layers of glass tape directly to the bottom and top outer corners I would also glass in 4 triangles [think holding up a shelf or step but vertical] where the transom meets the hull making sure that the inner and outer skins are connected at those points.. I would do the same for the across where the t transom meets the bottom of the hull .The problem you are having[I'm guessing] is that when someone describes a procedure in nautical terms you have to search for the words and understand them then come back to the description, I'm very familiar with this procedure. I've explained the how to previously in laymans terms and llan has given you the correct approach, you should be able to work out what to do.
As far as putting up a tent ,well yes bearing in mind the stinky moisture/spore laden air has to relocate somewhere so you will be wiping off moisture from non absorbant surfaces presumably. I think the inner and outer skin need to be attached to each other with a series of plugs,with glass patches bonded integral to the surfaces on each side , which will affect the outside surface of the transom but is less work to finish than cutting it off. They will also indicate to you whether your fix has worked if they crack. Draw pictures of your approach, take more photos with your descriptions and ask the knowledgeable people what they think of each step you are thinking of taking. You could bolt in stainless angle and brackets and carefully glass/ re enforce the holes the bolts go through as an alternative. Make a wooden pattern and have them cut/welded up.
 
Draw pictures of your approach, take more photos with your descriptions and ask the knowledgeable people what they think of each step you are thinking of taking. You could bolt in stainless angle and brackets and carefully glass/ re enforce the holes the bolts go through as an alternative. Make a wooden pattern and have them cut/welded up.
Thanks for your detailed reply.
The transom at the moment is a low concern as I aim to replace it when it’s needed. The only rot I have round is forward where fresh water has been getting it. I have only found dampness (no rot) (saltwater)) aft.
You raise an important point about killing off the spores which I’ll consider in my deliberations.
I will do as you suggested and post photos, sketches and descriptions of what I’m thinking.
The approach I’m thinking at the moment is do what I can to dry out and kill off the rot before it gets too bad and based of what I find / how successful that is decide what to do next.
Thanks
 
Sorry for saying that but generally polyester guys have not the knowledge background about the chemical interactions between wood/plywood and polyester resin. A 60 years experience tells these two materials are promised to divorce and after some time there is a very poor adhesion between the GRP skin and the wood.
For prolonging the boat life for a short time there is a very amateurish fix, which needs only patience and few tools. Disclaimer no pro would use that as the results are at best mediocre but for a boat used only in calm weather on a nice sea near the shore that can work.
The first thing is to a fix of the transom an essential structural piece and absolutely needed for the waterproofing of the boat. It's rather easy and that will give you a taste of the job to do.

First step is just to cut the external GRP skin of the transom, leaving around 8 cm at the top and the sides so the glass joints with the hull are not touched. Use an 4" angle grinder with a diamond disk or simply the thin disks for stainless steel. Peel the skin with the help of a wood chisel. You'll be surprised how easily it will peel.
Now you can assess the extension of the rot and the general humidity of the wood. You may be surprised by the degree of humidity of the wood. Take out all the rotten plywood gently with a good margin into the apparently good plywood. Clean up very well.
Make holes diameter 1" 25 mm, depth 2/3 of the plywood thickness. Take care not going too far and piercing the internal GRP skin. Pattern: a grid of holes spaced about 3" 7.5 cm starting close to the GRP strip. These holes have two functions: to help to dry, to create a mechanical key between the outside skin and the plywood.
Let it dry slowly, protected from sun, you do not want any warping or checking, as only one face is exposed to dry. That can take some time at least one week, maybe more. Resist to the disastrous hot gun itching, be patient. An ordinary fan helps a lot.

When dry, repair the missing rotten plywood with pieces of external or marine plywood. Do not use any epoxy glue which inhibits polyester, use simply polyester resin with a bit of cabosil. There is no need of a very strong glue. Glue well specially to the hull and the inside skin.

You are going to make a new external skin. You have several possibilities but I'll describe the simplest one.
With the angle grinder and a sanding flap disk grit 60 or 80 sand and bevel the 8 cm strip of GRP that remained attached to the hull. That will permit to make the joint between the new skin and the hull.
Impregnate all the holes with resin diluted with 10 to 20% styrene with a good dose of peroxide, about 1%. No other solvent only styrene which cures with the resin. Impregnate until the wood refuses to suck the diluted resin. Immediately fill the holes with a sauerkraut of chopped glass and bit of aerosil to control the thixotropy. Fill well with no air bubbles and let it protrude of the surface of the plywood. It's ugly. It's a messy job, do not worry.
Let it cure well, at least 1 day.

Now sand the plywood and glass plugs with a 40 to 60 grit sanding paper. The surface must be rough to give a mechanical key on the plywood, but perfectly flat.
Now glass the transom. It's a classic lay up of mat and cloth until you get the good thickness.

Finish the job and paint.

After you can see how to fix inside, you have learnt the basics.
if you went to all this trouble you just replace the transom not cut out bits and pieces. i have done a few transom replacements on my own boats and always do them in epoxy. 40 grit discs give a good key to bond epoxy to poly. but martins boat doesn't sound like it is any where near that stage.
 
Hey everyone , I just wanted to say a BIG thankyou to you all for taking the time with your advice and opinions. Your feedback has been fantastic!
Ilan I have never seen a transom construct described so well without even one photo :).

I have a bunch of questions that are more around dealing with the timber degradation etc that are away from the initial thread topic I posted. Is it worth asking them here or starting a new thread?
Start a new thread, as it's a vast subject but the answers are rather short, unhappily for many hoping a fast simple fix. There are a lot of snake oil products claiming improbable results.
But precise the type of boat building. Timber degradation has very different cures in classic wood, double planking, cold molded or in composite building using wood as core and/or structural element.
 
Start a new thread, as it's a vast subject but the answers are rather short, unhappily for many hoping a fast simple fix. There are a lot of snake oil products claiming improbable results.
But precise the type of boat building. Timber degradation has very different cures in classic wood, double planking, cold molded or in composite building using wood as core and/or structural element.
Thankyou Ilan, you clearly have a lot of experience around this topic. I will get photos and sketches and start a new thread. Thankyou all!
 
I'm surprised no one has suggested drilling through the bulkheads and forcing or injecting epoxy mixed with some flock ,making sure it makes its way through. Tubes could be inserted first then resin impregnated glass. as another approach. The main issue is making sure the bulkheads don't separate, collapse or fold.
The filled holes need to be placed carefully/stucturally and finishing with a layer of matt on each side if possible,.. would add peace of mind. rainage holes at low points for all saturated timber would also help I think. Disclaimer, I'm a relative novice. good luck



Trip the Light Fandango,

I'm glad to see your response on drilling holes/injecting resin. I have a 32ft Sutphen "cigarette" type boat made for rough water. Twin 502's.
That's exactly what i am doing in the transom. Just trying to get something solid between the fiberglass laminates in the transom especially where the multitude of items that are attached and the laminates squeezed together by bolts (2 trim tabs, 2 hydraulic steering brackets, besides the drives, thru hull exhaust, and the usual other stuff. Tapped with wooden stick everywhere, and drilled quite a few 3/8" holes to check for rot where suspected. But doesn't take too long to do. Completely drying it out first.

This boat has been thru a lot of rough riding before i saw one small transom crack at a stringer, so it must be a very well built transom for the engines/drives to stay perfectly aligned after that much abuse even with the rotting spots. It does have offshore front engine mounts. Next time i will pull both motors and everything, but for now, it's holes and injected resin with a filler, and a good repair at that crack at the top of one stringer.

Thanks for your suggestion. Should work for a stringer as well which I've seen hold up just with the fiberglass and some of the wood gone. Glass is tough. Glad to see somebody mention this. You don't see this done much. But since it's held up, and I now keep the transom dry since I've bought it, I really believe this will make it last quite a while. Mostly to keep the existing laminates in there place, although i agree, not at all as strong as everything properly glued together, but should be more than enough.

Kurt
 
The problem you describe is structural. Drying it out is virtually impossible unless you put the boat in a heated vacuum chamber and wait a long time. Making holes and injecting resin will make the rot hard, but will not accomplish anything to repair the failed structure. You will be adhering a lump of hardened rot to the end of decayed fibers. There is only one proper way to repair a wooden boat: cut out the rot and replace with new wood.
 
I know, but the wooden bulkheads and stringers are structural. I should've written "the wood in any boat"
 
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