US Yachts 21, anyone know this boat?

Well I did it! My brother and I came home yesterday with a 1982 US Yachts 21. It is the boat previously mentioned in this thread. I'm stoked. It's snowing up high, 45* in the valley, and all I can think about is ripping about in this little cruiser/racer. I have sailed this exact boat maybe 10 times over the last 5 years. My buddy selling her had a bad experience on the boat 3 or so years ago. He was solo, overpowered by the conditions, and was knocked around pretty hard. When he hears the sound of sails flapping, he gets a minor panic attack...and just like that, he was done with sailing...forever it seems. That one experience ruined him. Well his timidity is my gain!

Others who responded to my queries expressed caution and a word of warning regarding this era and vintage of boat. I personally know the last 20 years of owners (2). The canvas is all but new (main, jib, genny, storm jib, and spin). Everything is solid (side and fore-stay anchors, winch locations, seam from top deck to hull form, gudgeons, ect). Came with two 100lb batteries to make up for her lack of ballast, Minn-kota electric, an unused spin, 2 replacement halyards, 2 precut replacement plexi windows, an extra cabin slider lid, great trailer, extra rudder (much longer), and did I mention 20 years of known history wherein she lived under cover!
I'm excited! Pretty sure I could take care of her and still sell her for 3k in 10 years.

There are some things that need addressing...
--The dagger jams a little and just operates at less than optimum. We have to pour water down the sleeve to grease the skids a little and then "kick" fore and aft to muscle the dagger down. I wish it was easier. I've thought about bringing a squirt bottle with olive oil to better lube it.
--I know she is overpowered (25 SA/D). I've been on her when she heels hard, spins out, and rounds to irons. She also has what seems like too much weather helm (rake mast forward more?). She comes with an extra rudder which is nearly a foot longer than the one hanging now. It is un-drilled and brand new. Perhaps this would help the loss of control when hard heeled?

We've got a lot to learn but can't wait to crash the cans at out local club. I think we'll surprise some bigger boats

Because I don't want to screw any thing up, I'll likely run any mods or remodels past this forum to tap into the collective knowledge. I'm going to have loads of questions...get ready...ha!

Thanks for hours of "down the rabbit hole" research and armchair adventures. This forum is one of my daily checkers...bones.

 

That's a good looking boat. Looking forward to some updates.

 

Greetings!

An update is in order regarding my US Yachts 21'. The thing is cherry. Crispy white sheets bought by the 2nd owner back (new main, genoa, jib, storm jib, spin...all gorgeous). Rock solid boat body, like new mast, great trailer, 2nd sliding cabin lid, extra bow sprit and side/transom rails (?), extra windows, and un-drilled extra rudder. I live in the Flathead Valley of Western Montana, primarily sailing Flathead Lake. I traveled 17 miles to purchase the boat! There's something said for that! So with a Minkota and two huge deepcycle house batteries as extra ballast, it sent me back 3$ total.


Strangely enough, the 2nd owner back mentioned that the boat had been turtled before him, in a past life...I though near the northwest (I knew this feature but given my experience on the boat, decided it wasn't a factor). "The pin wasn't in and out she slid, taking the lifting tackle with...deep six." So, the board I have now, the one that it has used for the last 10(?) years of it's life, is not the one it was "born" with. It was poached from a mothballed show-room floor model...maybe even a cut away version-not sure. It's always been a little sticky. In the outings when my when my good friend owned it, we would just pour some water down the dagger sleeve, push fore and aft with the heal of a paddle, and it would eventually slide down.

Then it sat unused and covered for 2 years. I bought it and got out on it 4 times last summer. The dagger was very problematic. The first outing was just a float around because we couldn't even get the keel down. thankfully there was no wind. The next three outings actually had some sailing in them, but not without a rubber mallet and a chunk of wood. The last time we went I beat fore and aft for 30 min! It has a 16" sticky spot where each blow gains a mm. Ironically, pulling it up is no problem; it wedges, tension it up and woosh, up it slides. How can down be such a bear and up-so easy. When the keel is down, I can see part of the problem. There are plastic/teflon skids fore and aft in the sleeve. It seems a screw or two has worked its way out, thus allowing the skid to bow outwards. I can reach down the sleeve and easily push the skid/screw back in. I think the screw has stripped out. But I know the dagger might need some fairing. I find it hard to believe that a board from an exact model can be physically different from the original boat it came with(?). Are sliding daggers like this shaped for the specific sleeve it rides in?

I'm thinking of taking her over to a buddy's wood shop and using his overhead hoist. I'd have to free up the lifting tackle which is heavily glued with what looks like 3M5200. Once the 5-1 is removed, there should be nothing stopping the 250lb dagger from sliding right out the top. Then I can have a proper look at both the sleeve and board.

Is there anyone out there with some advice for me? History with the boat or a ill fitting sliding dagger? I know this is the dregs of the sliding keel...but there has to be a way to make this thing move better. After the first time we took it out and actually managed to get it in the down position, a wash of needles, pine cones, and other squirrel related detritus floated behind us. I'm sure all of that stuff is gone, but it still goes down like a bear...! Is removing it and having a proper look the thing to do? Or...a jug of olive oil to grease the skids next time...ha!

thanks collective conscious of boatdesign!

 

I'm thinking that those "slides" on the inside of your case, are behaving like a cam. When the board moves down, they cam out and grab the dagger board.

When you remove the board from the boat, you should be able to see wear marks, and that's your clue as to where it's grabbing.

 

Distortion

At the time those boats were built, it was common for ballasted boards/keels to "swell" some in the middle, especially where the weight was added after the board was removed from the mold. Check the board for a bulge near the lower middle. Sometimes, it doesn't take much sanding to fix the problem.
B

 

bruceb obviously knows what hes talking about. I was just making a guess. Sounds like a good project. Post some photos on that keel repair, I'm interested in how it all turns out.

 

Guess work

Thanks racer, but I am only guessing too. I was a dealer for US Yachts when those were produced, and we sold several of them, but it was a LONG time ago How time flies.
B

 

Thanks guys!

I was hoping for some easy fix that didn't involve pulling the dagger. I knew better than that When the roads dry up a little, I'll pull it to my buddies shop. Any tricks to getting 3m5200 to loosen up? I've got to remove the 5-1 lifting tackle that bridges the sleeve. I'll keep you posted on my progress. I just hope I'm not going backwards...

bones

 

I use a "hot knife" trick. Pull that old steel putty knife out of the drawer, you know, the one you never did like all that much. Heat the blade until it's glowing pretty good and slice through the goo like butter, reheating as necessary. A multi tool can be handy, though can get out of control, cutting things, you'd have preferred it hadn't. A heat gun will let you pry on it with something, so you can get under it with a blade. A moderately dull hack saw blade ill cut through this stuff, with enough control to not tear up much, if used by hand with some care.

 

Couple of Keel Questions

Well the roads have dried up a little and I'm itching to get the keel out of the boat. I've hopefully attached a handful of pics of the boat and keel before we jerk it out. One picture shows the boat comfortably on the hard in the garage with a H16 nestled underneath to maximize the space (it's hard playing with a wood shop, a welding shop, and snowmobile/boat storage all at once....

The other pictures are of the top and bottom of the dagger. As I've mentioned in other posts, the dagger is not the original for the boat. It came from the same model but a a different craft. So here are some starter questions and a preemptive "thanks" to the sailing community.

Removal:
The top of the dagger "fork" is flanged where it rests upon a ledger once seated in the lowered position. Can I take 1" Tubular climbing webbing and hitch around the flange as the lifting point? In the timber framing industry, I've used climbing webbing to lift crazy loads. The trouble I'm foreseeing is keeping the choke (or double choke) from slipping over the flange. It only weighs 200 lbs so I'm sure two men could wrest it from the sleeve the old-fashioned way...(?) If it were wood, I would attach a "stopper block" to the top in order to keep the hitch from slipping off. In this case, that doesn't seem like a good idea to put holes in the top (or perhaps I go this route and patch them afterwards?)

Visible damage to address:
Both the top and the bottom of the dagger show abuse. The top flange is damaged (perhaps some of it coming from my hand last summer as I mercilessly beat on it with a block of wood and a rubber mallet). Seems an easy fix there: bog and glass fabric, sand sand. Any suggestions?

The bottom leading edge shows an earlier attempt at a "tuneup" as seen in the pictures. Perhaps my sticky dagger is due to water egress up the keel causing swelling...It's totally dry now. Do I just clean it up, bog, and glass again? What appears to be the core material is showing through on the corner...not wood but perhaps a resin saturated foam of some sort.

Once the high spots are sanded away and the aforementioned dings fixed, how do I finish it? I believe it to have a 1/16" gelcoat finish. can I just leave an exposed glass patch to the water. I'm nervous about doing the repairs and shaping only to have the finish be too thick and the initial problem still at hand (too tight dagger).

Hmmm. Again, thanks all for the comments! I'm hoping someone will this problem and perhaps this very boat's issues can point me in the right direction. Once the dagger is removed, there's likely to be more queries...

bigfork

 

The damage doesn't look bad. You might put a jack under the keel and lift it as far as possible.

 

What I should say is the ding on the bow looks pretty minor. The keel however, is going to need some attention.

It looks like the leading edge might have been repaired already. That lower front corner has seen some better days.

Perhaps all the white gel coat rubbed off the leading edge because that's where it's grabbing inside the trunk?

You should remove the keel and give everything a look. There must be a lifting point someplace, maybe there's an eyelet down low in the forked section. I still think that the best way to remove it, is by jacking it up from the bottom.

With it jacked up, maybe two guys could muscle it up through the top, but then what? Your not going to want to lay that thing on the deck and try to ease it over the side. Nope. That's how stuff gets broken and people get hurt.

You could bolt together a hoist out of timbers, and attach a chain fall. Remember that after you get the keel removed, you'll eventually want it reinstalled.

It might also be a good idea to lift the whole trailer and see if the dagger will drop easily now that it's had time to dry.

 

Thanks for the advice Canracer,

Well...the keel is out, the old fashioned way. We were able to manually lift it out of the sleeve and then prop it on a pillow, slowly laying it down along the side of the top deck. We then put a blanket under it, slid one end off the edge, padded the ground, and gingerly "slid" it to the ground. At this point, we still could not lift it at all! Seems to weigh more than 200 lbs. Once lowered to the ground, we Egyptian system(ed) it into the garage where it now rests upon some cribbing. I need to take some pictures of the issues I've discovered...Problematic skids in the dagger sleeve (stripped screws, etc), and damage to dagger. It's hard to explain the issues when a picture tells all.

More soon and thanks for the help!!

Bigfork.

 

LMFAO (Egyptian system.)

 

Personally, I'd try and solve the tightness issue in the box first. Worth completely removing the board (as you have) and checking where the tight spots are. It is so much easier to work on the board (once out) than the internal part, lets hope only a very small part may be affected. It is not uncommon for F/glass c/board or dagger board cases to be less than true. Once you have got the screws and slides sorted inside the box it would be worth shoving a dummy width of scrap timber in to check clearance, unless you have a very long vernier...

Ideally get the measurements and note any part out of true. The board itself is relatively easy to repair as it's now out. Cut out any rotten core foam/timber etc back to dry stuff. Chamfer some good foam a bit and build a new core out of epoxy and microballoons/fibres/colloidal/wood fibres - take you pick. I'd probably use a mix with the first two items depending on how stiff you need it.

The new glass should be roving and/or biax and scarfed into the existing, just feather off a decent angle say towards the 7 or 8 to one ideal. Make sure all this is approx 1mm plus underneath the ultimate top surface of the gelcoat. Match or exceed the layup you have already. I would be tempted to go a bit shy with the layup (in distance terms not thickness) where it has worn away and put a more sacrificial part on top of the glass, of epoxy and microfibre. In future this can take the knocks and wear without rupturing the core.

Light sand the glass and seal with a resin coat (or 2) prior (sand again) to gelcoating. Remember to add wax (styrene monomer) to the gelcoat to get it to go off OK. It can be applied with a squegee or similar, even a cabinet scraper!. After curing sand wet and buff out. Try the fit before you apply the gelcoat though in case you need to rework any area. You can measure the board with homemade calipers OK.

This is the approach I've taken when repairing slightly smaller ballasted boards up to around 50Kg (110 lbs) which at least you can lift about, whew!
It's worked well so far, with no failures since (last three years +). One or two much older similar repairs have held fine as well. On some classes it is possible to significantly 'tune' the hydrodynamics of the board and end profile as the manufacture (OE) is so poor and there is no restriction on 'repair'...