Uptip Foils

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    And then there is this-its just a matter of calling one of the most significant foil designs ever by the name the inventors gave it as a small sign of respect for their effort:

    Link to Part 1 and Part 2--Pete Melvin and Gino Morrelli: http://www.cupinfo.com/en/featuresindex.php

    Quote from the article,Part 1:

    When we were working on the rule, we knew you wanted to get as much lift as possible when you were going fast downwind,” Melvin says. "For instance, in the 2010 America’s Cup, sailed on giant multihulls, the maximum amount of lift we thought we could get was about 50% of the weight of the boat. At that time, we were still relying on the hull to provide pitch control, so what’s come out of this is the boats all now have elevators (the horizontal foils on the rudders).

    “At Team New Zealand, we developed a new type of foil that allows you to keep your height above the water more or less steady. No one had been able to do that before, at least not on a course-racing boat that was not going downwind. We developed that mostly on our SL33 test boats -- they came with the stock constant curvature “C” foils and with those kinds of foils, you can generate 50% boat weight lift before they get unstable. But we noticed that when we could get one boat up fully foiling for a few seconds it would really accelerate away from the other boat – and that got the wheels turning. How, with such a huge potential benefit, can we achieve stable flight downwind? So our design team came up with the “up-tip” type of boards. We refined those on the 33s and our 72 is designed to do that and fortunately it worked right of the box.”
    __________________
     
  3. basil
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    basil Senior Member

    I dont think there ever was an issue about who named the bloody things. It was just your stupid upper/lower case mix when writing the word that pisses eveybody off.

    Why do I know this because I check wherever you're writing, for the entertainment everybody else provides giving you **** as you continue to repeat the same old boring stuff over and over about your toy boats.

    If your toy boat is so good then build a full size one. You certainly have time to, you must spend thousands of hours on the net each year.

    Also while I'm at it, stop your excessively dumb use of red type. It certainly encourages others to wind you up.
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Thanks for your insightful comments and contribution to this UptiP thread.........There must have been(or be) some issue because most people continue to call them "L", "J" or any of several other ridiculous names. Seems like anything but the actual name-----funny. I don't want to believe it is just the joy of ignorance,
    jealousy, or some other malady. Whats your reason?
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Maserati's "uptip" foil

    The stb ama foil on Maserati's new foil configuration which is strikingly similar to the Fire Arrow Foil System is very interesting. They needed an uptip foil in the ama to take advantage of the intrinsic altitude control that foil can provide.
    But the ama trunk was angled quite a bit for the MOD 70 "C" foil normally used. So they built a foil that physically resembles a straight "L" foil. The cool thing is when the foil is installed in the angled trunk and deployed it functions like an uptip foil! A "normal" straight "L" foil would require very frequent rake adjustment to maintain altitude.


    photo by Gulain Grenier:

    [​IMG]
     

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  6. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    Your determined to rub people up the wrong way aren't you DuG.
    It's your bed.
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ========================
    Not at all red.
     
  8. redreuben
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    redreuben redreuben

    See a truly smart man would have made the "red" red.
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    More on UptiP foils:
    1) disadvantage on some boats is that the foils have to be raised/lowered every tack or gybe. "Z" foils can be left down-but that is a design compromise. However, when M&M wanted a speed foil for their new Super Foiler they picked UptiP foils. Read page 26 of the link in post #1......
    The Fire Arrow Test Model has shown that UptiP foils can be used on a trimaran designed specifically for them without the need to raise/lower the foils with every tack or gybe.
    -----
    2) The WOLF design based on the Fire Arrow Foil System has shown that UptiP foils in their smooth water configuration can be left in place(not retracted) when the boat is beached. Further, they have much less draft than do the "Z" foils used on A Cats-which is a big deal in some places.
     
  10. gypsy28
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    gypsy28 Senior Member

    Why would you want the foils down on the beach tho? Surely you would raise them to sail into the beach? Why lower them once beached?
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    UptiP Ama Foils/WOLF

    =============
    When the ama foils are deployed to their "normal" smooth water position, the bottom of each ama foil is 2' below the bottom of the ama planing surface. At that position in the water with the boat level the foils are barely touching the water. The boat is designed to sail at a 10 degree angle of heel.
    Pulled up on the beach each side would be 6"+ above the beach with the boat level. So from the "normal" deployed position there is no need to retract the ama foils IF the boat is kept level.
    However, the main daggerboard foil still needs to be retracted as you sail into the beach. Since this is a beach boat the main foil may retract a bit into the hull so it doesn't contact the sand. The UptiP ama foils have the shallowest draft of almost any foil, foiling or not.
    The idea is to make flying, sailing and handling on the beach as simple as possible.

    WOLF sitting level with lots of clearance under the ama planing surface:

    [​IMG]


    Fire Arrow illustrating the angle of heel of the boat when flying(10 degrees) :

    [​IMG]
     
  12. OzFred
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    OzFred Senior Member

    Any foil that only protrudes 2' below the float would have that feature, it's not unique to your "up-tip" type boards. It's a consequence of your decision for the boat to have a large dihedral on the float arms and sail healed to leeward, a feature that no one else seems to find attractive (because it's necessarily slow, particularly for foilers and small planing boats).

    Weird how just about every thread you're involved in seems to end up about your pet topic.

    So now your boat is going to have a recess in the main hull into which the T foil can be fully retracted for beaching? And, while beached, the boat will sit stably on the main hull so that it does not list at all, keeping the main T and float foils from touching the ground?

    Taking advantage of this beaching ability means coming into the beach with the main board fully retracted, dropping the sail, then motoring or paddling into the beach, balancing on a perfectly even keel with no boards to provide lateral resistance and no wind, waves or moving passengers to rock the boat to either side. And somebody has to raise the rudder.
     
  13. UpOnStands
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    UpOnStands Senior Member

    I feel the board should create a separate forum for all things foiling.
    What say the rest of you?
     
  14. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    How about a seperate forum just for Doug? I used to find his posts entertaining, but now it has just reverted to the same nonsense over and over.
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =================
    If you don't like foiling DON"T READ FOILING TOPICS! If you don't like me , put me on ignore!!!!
     
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