Unusual design for an extra-heavy-displacement 11ft long Atlantic Proa for circumnavigation

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by artis, Nov 24, 2023.

  1. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    I will allow myself to disagree here. Yes, you won’t get the typical slow roll in the fast gliding boat, but if there is any substantial seas, you will be getting a motion which is far worse and extremely tiring and even dangerous. Fast surfing is fun for a single afternoon, but not for having your whole home being surfed over rough seas for weeks on end… I much prefer the slow boat’s leisurely “walk in a forest” which was so nicely described by Yrvind here:

    Plus it is way too dangerous for my liking to go so fast. To be able to do it, your boat must be very light- imagine flying such a light thing into a drifting shipping container or unlit fishing boat in the middle of night, in the middle of South Pacific… And how does your “speed” help when becalmed in nasty seas left over from yesterday’s storm, when you’re already exhausted and sleep-deprived after the heavy blow… Thank you for the suggestion, but no thanks!
     
  2. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    My intention is to use the same type of throat halyard as gaff rigs have. It would go through a hole in each leg, with a stopper-knot right beneath it and thus pull up each of the legs at exactly the intended hight for each of it. For lowering them, I would have to rely on the weight of the legs. And if they would tend to stuck, I would probably use a line/parrel with plastic beads on it, so they would roll and wouldn’t create friction. And if even that would fail, I could use something heavier than plastic- then it would definitely not stay up the mast when the halyard is lowered.
     
  3. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    Yes, I wouldn’t have even an option to depower such a sail by trimming it. But I think it should be completely fine for two reasons:
    1) My intended sail will be quite small in relation to the heavy displacement and deep keel which will be exactly perpendicular to the wind during shunting, so the worst what could happen, would be that the boat is heeled heavily and the sail is spilling the majority of wind pressure- not a big deal as long as your rig is strong enough to withstand such loads.
    2) In any emergency I would have the nice junk rig’s option to let go the halyard and drop the whole sail down in lazyjacks in a split second. Actually even better- since I wouldn’t have all the usual junk rig’s parrels, I wouldn’t end up with the mess of “spaghetti”, which you get if you do such a thing to a regular junk rig without properly hauling in the parrels, as you lower the sail in an orderly manner.
     
  4. skaraborgcraft
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    Im not offended. It is just the basic principles seem to be being ignored. Have you heard of "bell bouys"? They have a traditional bell on them, which clang due to the motion of the bouy in a seaway, except in flat calm. Again, you have a notion that the shape you have come up with is going to have minimal roll, but at the same time you mention capsize and pitch-pole. Yrvinds boat is like a narco-sub, he just dont load it down with enough ganja.

    Maybe look at the traditional Block Island Cowhorn, it has almost a V shape, with lots of wetted surface area, very seaworthy. What you propose is not a boat, but an un-anchored rescue float. In a strong current, which are often around land masses, you wont have enough sail power or directional steerage. Why build a liability when you could build a functioning vessel? If you can afford 13tons of steel, then you can already buy a used boat. I have been sailing for 40 years, I still get sea-sick: it passes.
     
  5. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    I absolutely agree. The heaviest boat which I was regularly moving with yuloh what was the 14 tons of my Hartley South Seas 38, which I sailed engineless. But I must immediately admit that I was able to do it only when there was no perceptible wind at all- she had a terrible amount of windage. As the windage of this project would be extremely small, I expect it to be even much easier than that.

    Yes, I also expect her to want to turn while coasting, but I hope it will be easy enough to find the right position for the yuloh lock which would balance things good enough to keep me going straight without too much steering effort with the yuloh.
     
  6. skaraborgcraft
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

  7. skaraborgcraft
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    skaraborgcraft Senior Member

    You might note the prior boat was cut up on an island as he said it was too rolly and unstable. You might also notice his new boat is more beamy than the one you show...... there is a reason for that.
     
  8. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    Thank you Robert so much for this idea! I appreciate it very much. And I seriously think to do it when/if I get so far with this crazy project.
     
  9. Milehog
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    Milehog Clever Quip

    Where does the dinghy go?
     
  10. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    If you think it might benefit the readers, then of course, I am happy to cooperate with you, once I get so far with the project. It will be a few months before I can start building anything bigger than what I can carry with one hand. And about not endangering anyone, I don’t think we will have any issues with that, because my usual problem is that I am too cautious, not too irresponsible. And we can always agree on specific points which we later adhere to.
     
  11. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    That FLIP ship can have little movement, because the bulk is below the cyclic movement of water by the waves. Your boat would be right in the moving water.
     
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  12. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    I didn’t say that I *expect* her to repeatedly cupsize and pitchpole. I said I want her to be *capable* of withstanding that without any more issues than a teared sail or a snapped rope somewhere, which are all easily repairable at sea. I do think that such a hull would be extremely difficult to capsise, but I like things to be way safer than they usually are designed to be. At the end of the day- any boat can get capsised if she stays at sea for long enough. Even Reid Stowe’s Anna got capsised a full 180° during his three-years-long non-stop voyage. And she was a purpose-built 70 feet boat of 60 tons displacement if I remember correctly…
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
  13. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    Even though she wouldn’t be tracking straight when coasting, I expect that with my intended rig I should be easily able to keep her balanced and on course by steering with sails (see my previous post about my intended rig). Do you have any reason to think it won’t work?
     
  14. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    I am not familiar with the AYRS rig, except for what Robert mentioned in this thread. If you have a lot of experience with it and you have read my post about my intended sailplan, do you see any issues which would apply to my mainsail design, which you could warn me about? Thanks.
     

  15. artis
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    artis Junior Member

    A big big thanks to you Robert for writing this! This is again one of those few things which I mentioned earlier, which never occurred to me before you said it. And my respect and appreciation- you are 100% right, but it never occurred to me. I definitely have to keep in mind that I need a solution for this if I go ahead with the current mainsail design. I can imagine that both of your suggested solutions might be possible. Even though sheeting each batten separately from both ends would make for an unattractive heap of sheets which would have to be managed all at the time, and they couldn’t be spliced together because they have to travel for different lengths. Also I can add that regarding your second solution, I would probably look towards having the yard placed vertically and close to the sail (instead of diagonally). And the batten-legs would then have a slit wide enough to barely hug the yard, while travelling up and down along it. And then the sheeting could be done as it was initially intended (not by turning the mast or the yard). That way there would be less of leveraged tensions in the rig, more control and no vibration noise in the seaway, but the yard would still restrict from battens turning relative to each other for more than 1 or 2 degrees. Do you reckon it would work?
     
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