Ultims in Transat Jacques Vabre

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Dolfiman, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    At 7AM eastern Gitana is 1.9 miles behind and doing 23.9kts vs Sodebo at 21.7! So close.....

    UPDATE-in 6 minutes since the above reading Sodebo is at 32.7 Gitana at 18.9!! 7miles apart...

    Dolfiman--how frequently are these updated?
     
  2. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Ranking updated at 5h, 9h, 12h, 16h, 20h, 00h (french hour). The last one you saw is at 12h.
    But the map is updated every hour. and if you zoom+++ on the map, you can see their positions, presently that Gitana is west / Sodebo. Then, you click on the boat icon, you have their speed and VMG during the last hour : presently VMG Gitana is 22,4 Knots and Sodebo 25,2 Knots. And "écart au premier" is "distance from first" , Gitana is 7,4 NM behind presently.

    Imoca race also very interesting and high level : SMA (ex Macif winner of the Vendée Globe 2012-2013) , still non foiler, is second, offering a very good resistance with the 3 other foilers of the top 4 : St Michel first, Des voiles et vous (ex. Safran) third and Bureau Vallée 2 (ex Banque Pop winner of the Vendée Globe 2016-2017) 4th. Malizia II (ex Gitana, also foiler) is 7th, skipper Boris Hermann is German and is preparing the next Vendée Globe, a first in Imoca I think.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    It's hard to believe that Gitana is almost 15nm back and slower than Sodebo. That course error they made has cost them dearly! Do you still think they have a chance, Dolfiman?
     
  4. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    If Gitana speed potential is not technically affected, they still have a chance, they already show at the beginning of the race that they are able to go faster than Sodebo in reaching conditions. Their delay in time is only 30 mn. On the other hand Sodebo is a very sharp machine and currently easier to lead at 100% than new Gitana still in the learning curve as confessed Seb Josse on their site. He also confessed their wrong route option 2 days ago (it was not a tactical move as I presumed optimistically), in french on their site :
    "Thomas and Jean-Luc played a nice weather option that explains today that they are leading the race. After the passage of the Azores we had the choice between jibing several times or going under J0 (big gennaker). Given our position at that time, we opted for gybing and navigation under J1 (genoa) which was to allow us to gain in longitudinal. Sodebo made the opposite choice by shifting in the West to slip. Our choice did not pay, far from it. Not only the state of the sea in the night from Tuesday to Wednesday did not allow us to exploit as expected our choice of sail and our meeting with a grain without wind pushed the nail. In the end, it was Thomas and Jean-Luc who pulled the right edge and in view of the weather conditions that presented themselves in front of our bows we had last night to jibe at 90 ° of the road to get away from the African coast and areas of light winds in our south. On the way out of this resetting, the addition was salty: from a 64-mile credit at 21h, Gitana 17 conceded 60 miles at sunrise. "t's always hard as a decision but the evening files were very clear. Sometimes you have to know how to lose a little to not completely mortgage the next events" .

    Also, their today comment on the race and their chance, this one in english :
    The Maxi Edmond de Rothschild in ambush - Gitana : Offshore racing stable created by Baron Benjamin de Rothschild http://www.gitana-team.com/en/a-1273/the-maxi-edmond-de-rothschild-in-ambush
     
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  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Thanks for the information-I'll hope for the best......
     
  6. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Now Doug, the true scientific perspective is to observe without attachment to outcome. Foils help when there is enough wind and hurt if they can't be removed completely from the water when there isn't. This race is a better test for the real world as it doesn't involve waiting for the perfect weather window like a record attempt. Eventually if there is enough to be gained people will try to develop ways to get these things out of the water in the light stuff. Maybe a circular ama hull section rotating around a central spine to carry the foil trunk? Back in the early days as you know everybody pondered foils dropping over the sides that could be retracted. Maybe skippers will look at the forecasts and leave the foils behind if it is a light forecast but that doesn't seem as interesting.
     
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Gitana is 42 miles behind this morning-and slightly faster now. I would have thought that they would have added light air SA to make up for the disadvantage of foils that can't be fully retracted.
     
  8. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    18-20 knots rear winds are forecasted for the last 300 NM, so likely some jibing with gennaker. The race will not finished as linear as for the last 24h, still route options ahead.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

  10. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Comments posted on the race site :
    "Since their resetting tack in the South of the Azores, they rolled their gennaker, but what problem do they really have on board, we do not know. We just see that we can have them in speed ... "confided Jean-Luc Nélias this morning. Clearly, Sébastien Josse and Thomas Rouxel are in Archimedean mode. It's been several days since their Maxi can not create delta speed by rising above the water."
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Congratulations to Sodebo -they sailed a great race! As best I can tell Gitanas race went sour when they made the course mistake and had to tack back west costing them well over 60 miles.Very unfortunate for Team Gitana. I don't think there's a problem with the boat.
     
  12. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    On the water, Gitana sailed 4838 NM at 25,21 Knots / Sodebo 4742 NM at 24,94 Knots.
    For a new sophisticated boat with a lot of parameters to optimise, Gitana did a great race anyway, it is expected by Gitana team as by Banque Pop one that 2 years are necessary to test, improve and reach the full potential of such Ultim. In that long term perspective, probably that skippers sailed Gitana a bit conservative to avoid any capsize hazard.
     
  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Gitana NOT foiling! I missed this earlier today:


    On this her first trial run in race configuration and up against particularly stiff competition, the Transat Jacques Vabre has certainly lived up to expectations. The high standard of play pushed Sébastien Josse and Thomas Rouxel to their limits and has given them a better understanding of the fabulous machine that is the Maxi Edmond de Rothschild. Some technical incidents on the second day of racing, did however prevent the duo from expressing the true potential of Gitana 17 by forcing them to do battle without all their weapons. Indeed, in addition to the AIS black-out from the start, which could have had disastrous consequences in terms of the sailors' safety, the duo had to deal with repeated engine failure; damage which cost the skipper of Edmond de Rothschild many long hours in the bilges, whilst his co-skipper busied himself with maintaining the rhythm at over 30 knots. Last but not least, it's an injured bird', deprived of her wings', which has just pulled alongside in the Marina in Salvador de Bahia. Indeed, on Tuesday, after the front rolled through, the sailor from Nice informed his shore crew of serious damage to the boat's port foil. Unusable, the precious appendage was raised to avoid any further damage. Two days later, it was the turn of the starboard foil to show the same signs of damage as its twin. To put it plainly, our duo was deprived of her major assets for ¾ of the race, which explains the speed deficit everyone observed.
     
  14. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    In comlement to your message Doug, this debriefing posted in French on the race site :
    "Editor's Note: Before the passage of the front, the port foil dropped, then approaching Cape Verde, it was the turn of the starboard foil ... "
    Sébastien Josse "The exit of the Bay of Biscay was not super cool and we had our share of daily surprises. We have small concerns about the foils that prevented us from flying. That made us a bit handicapped. It is a concern of composite, it will be necessary to look more deeply, I do not know the cause. The foils are no longer in their integrity. They are more flexible than they should be. On the last part of the course, this is where we should have had the best speed spikes. This is where we are frustrated because we could have exploited the maximum potential of the boat. We could have gone very fast ... We were not in a spirit of attack at the end. We stayed a little offshore to get more wind, Sodebo opted for the coast. We were limited to a certain speed to keep control of the boat because of our foil problems. At some point, you have to be realistic and aware. At 100 miles from the finish with 70 miles behind, the percentage to double them is minimal unless they have a big glitch. Arriving in Bahia is a big thing for our team. It would have been 10 miles behind, the state of mind would not have been the same. "

    Actualités - Sodebo Ultim’/Maxi Edmond de Rothschild : le grand débriefing - Transat Jacques Vabre 2017 https://www.transatjacquesvabre.org/fr/actualites/sillages/477/sodebo-ultim-maxi-edmond-de-rothschild-le-grand-debriefing
     
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  15. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Dolfiman, have you found an accurate distance that Gitana was behind at the finish? Not overall distance sailed but the actual distance behind Sodebo at the finish?
     
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