Ultims 2018-2019

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Dolfiman, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Just heard back from Guillaume: he was told that the daggerboard foil was removed for towing.
    So the foil was in place during the capsize. I wonder if using the foil was part of or would be part of their incomplete* capsize plan?
    *Armel Le Cleach
    Nothing from Banque Pop yet......
     
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  2. Dolfiman
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    Location: NICE (France)

    Dolfiman Senior Member

    May be you can try also : lauriot@vannes.vplp.fr about the anti-capsize issue and eventual role of a daggerboard foil for that.
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Thanks for that-good idea! I hope Vincent answers-I asked him the same questions I asked Guillaume. Could be more great info!
     
  4. Dolfiman
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    Location: NICE (France)

    Dolfiman Senior Member

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  5. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Some photos that I took this morning from the quay open to the public : foot mast (very impressive), Sodebo foil (with what looks like a bumper on the leading edge, to prevent damage from a floating object ?), ... IMG_6353.JPG IMG_6371.JPG IMG_6341.JPG IMG_6343.JPG IMG_6359.JPG IMG_6367.JPG IMG_6369.JPG IMG_6380.JPG IMG_6347.JPG
     
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  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Great shots, Dolfiman!! Do any of the three appear to have a foil on the daggerboard? You are so lucky to be right there-have fun!
     
  7. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

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  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Here is a most gracious, detailed response from Vincent Prevost. (Thanks again for the suggestion, Dolfiman!).
    First, my question:
    Hi, I’m very interested in the foil systems being used by Banque Populaire and Gitana-particularly the main foil on the daggerboard. I saw a picture yesterday of BP upside down and noticed there was no foil on the daggerboard-I’m curious: was it removed due to damage or just to get it out of the way? Was it possible to use that foil to develop downforce and could it be used to prevent or slow down a capsize ? If the Ultim rules were changed could the flap be tied in to the autopilot in such a way that at the very beginning of a capsize the flap was moved max up to generate maximum downforce? Would there be any structural issues with this?

    Thank you for considering my questions-I greatly appreciate it!

    Take Care, Doug Lord


    =====================================================
    Vincent's response:
    ---
    Hello Doug
    thanks for your email relative to BP capsize
    As far as I know, they had lost the T of the board a day before.(bold emphasis dl)
    Considering the T board may push up or down for about 2.5 to 3 tons , the RM can be increased or decreased by 15 to 20% which is a lot in terms of overlaoding the platform and mast.
    In ocean racing world, we enter in a new era where , as for the Foiling Imoca 60, the righting moment of the boat is function of the dynamic forces generated by the foils
    It means that the skipper will have to sail taking into account these variations of RM caused by dynamics loads from the foils if he doesn't want to break the boat
    sensors , alarms have to be installed now to have the knowledge of the loads on the elements of structure impacted by RM variations
    So in theory ,for your last question, answer is yes to delay a capsize with 2 warnings:
    - increase the RM affects the designed structure of the boat , and ,
    - at the heel angle where the board is out the water, you brutally loose 20% of your righting moment
    So to be used being seriously informed and controlled (bold emphasis dl)


    hope that helps
    regards
    vincent
     
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  9. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Dear Doug, That's a really great and open source answer from Vincent to your well focused question ! With Guillaume, they are really open minded on these sensitive questions.

    I visited this morning the Ultims exhibition tent, took some technical photos, here attached, of :
    - Sodebo mast section (Chord 1,20m , Beam 0,60 m) height of the mast 35 m, weight ? : it is said 25 kg for this sample of about 1 m height, builder Lorima : LORIMA http://www.lorima-carbon-mast.com/en/index/
    - BP9 ama half section
    - BP9 data
    The building of a new mast is usually 4 months, it is this delay which is critical for the refit of BP9.

    I promote to the there people the idea of oceanic races with a stop at Sydney for example, as to NY last year, so to help extend the Ultim class to more international participation.
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Dolfiman, interesting that Guillaume said there were no structural concerns on Gitana 17 with using max up flap on an emergency basis, yet Vincent mentions some structural concerns with Banque Pop.
    Vincent's mention of the loss of RM when the mainfoil (at max up flap/max downforce) clears the water is something that concerned me with the relatively shallow draft of the daggerboard foils on both Banque Pop and Gitana 17.
    -----
    Dolfiman, please see my PM just now.....
    -----
    Their generosity with their time and information is fantastic.
    These guys are in the midst of a trimaran design revolution that is nothing short of extraordinary!
    =============================
    Dolfiman, great pictures above. I can't get over how thin the carbon part of the wall thickness is-that must be some incredible engineering!
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
  11. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Seen the start of the Med race, very very light wind on the line (Sodebo, in a patch of no wind, took 8 mn to cross the line ! ), as you can see on the photos that I took (attached). But strong winds are expected offshore that night. Organisers changes the route : at first sailing along the french coast towards Marseille, then directly towards South of Sardegna, and return to Nice by the east of Sardegna and Corsica. The reason is to be visible from the public and not at night when turning the spot buoys of Marseille, Sardegna and Corsica.
    You can see the tracker here, last minute : it seems that Actual is now back to Nice, problem !?
    Nice Ultimed 2018 http://niceultimed.geovoile.com/2018/race/tracker/fr/
    Armel Le Cleac'h was there too to give the start with the Mayor of Nice, he confirmed that the re launch of BP9 is expected for early September, that the anti-capsize system in preparation will be adequat (the time reaction issue) and reliable :
    Interview : Armel Le Cléac’h : « Etre acteur de Nice UltiMed » http://www.niceultimed.com/fr/actus/2018/armel-le-cleach-etre-acteur-de-nice-ultimed
    Jean- Pierre Dick was also there with a small fleet of "Easy to Fly" in demonstration, but no wind >> no fly,, no even any sailing, and so eventually a motor boat towed one Easy to Fly at speed to show it on foils to the public.
    Hard, hard for organisers ......when wind is absent.
    IMG_6407.JPG IMG_6408.JPG
     
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  12. Dolfiman
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    Location: NICE (France)

    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Actual abandon :
    "Yves Le Blévec called the Race Direction of Nice UltiMed to inform him of a rigging damage (hydraulic cylinder out of service) occurred on Actual-Grand Large Emotion. During a tack, the mast went downwind and the crew realized that the cylinder controlling the system no longer fulfilled its role. The trimaran then sailed 1.5 miles north-east of the Cape of Saint-Tropez, in a southwest wind of 6 to 8 knots and on a flat sea. After securing the rig, Yves Le Blévec and his crew made the decision to turn back and abandon Nice UltiMed. Indeed, given the damage and the expected weather conditions on the continuation of the course (wind of 30 to 35 nodes, gusts to 45 nodes), the skipper judged impossible to continue the race without putting the integrity of the boat and of his teammates in danger.
     
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  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Thanks for the update.....
     
  14. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

    Sodebo and Idec Sport are very close at mid-race, only 3 NM between :
    "Spectacular come back of IDEC SPORT! Being 1h45 behind Sodebo this afternoon at the passage of the mark Capo Spartivento (Southern Sardinia), Francis Joyon and his crew have totally made up their time. At 20:15, they even took control of the race. The match is more than ever revived!"
    Nice Ultimed 2018 http://niceultimed.geovoile.com/2018/race/tracker/fr/
     

  15. Dolfiman
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    Dolfiman Senior Member

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