"Ultimate" hull/deck/strong/light material?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by winter, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. winter
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    winter New Member

    Curious, about others opinion, of the absolute lightest/strongest/ridged/impact resistant material/design for a glorified 32'x8' windsurfer? Something along the lines of a New Haven Sharpie.

    Thanks Much! For your time, and thought on the subject!

    Dan W.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There is a huge difference between a windsurfer and a New Haven sharpie, but I think I know what you're getting at.

    Lets assume you can't remotely afford "the absolute lightest/strongest/ridged/impact resistant material", because these materials and build methods necessary to employ them to bets advantage in a 32' yacht, are just way over the top for the rational sailor. Carbon, Kevlar and spectra fibers, maybe some metals will top the list. Using just portions of these in a composite laminate can be beneficial, but you're robbing from Peter to pay Paul and really lose what you gain most of the time.

    Can you refine your requirements a little. There's really no such thing as the best and the lightest in a build method. Material selections are load, budget, technique and application based, much more so then because they are the "lightest".
     
  3. winter
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    winter New Member

    I have a several Sharpie plans...I like the the simplicity, shoal draft, speed, light weight, trailerable, minimalist materials, hard chine (flat core sheets), I can take an unpopular silted in slips/marina, get it out of the water(hurricane), hopefully pull a really light craft (petrol savings), aluminum trailer, CG really low, sitting head room (I am one of those that does not sleep standing up), camp in it around the country, boom tenter, sea swing/pressure cooker oven, built in fresh water/ballast, sealed motorcycle batteries ballast, sorta electric bow thruster no crab pot lines/grass in the prop drive, solar cell cabin top/small wind generator charge batteries while sitting, plastic no rot hull deck, molded in color, swiveling carbon fiber masts, masts strong enough to take a roll of boat in serf/and heel over for cleaning, tabernacles slightly offset easy under bridges, light/tough boat easy kedging/portage to new places, polling rowing, small generator. Just a few of my wants....My play ground from New Orleans to Apalachicola...S. MS home...Look forward to running aground frequently...And going fast for a monohull...Love the back waters & critters too. Get caught in squalls once in a while too...3000lbs....?

    Hey! thanks for asking about my fantasy...Dan
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  4. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Given your desires and requirements, you'll need a custom design. Rotating carbon sticks on tabernacles, water ballast and the rest all add up to a moderately complex, certanily costly build. The light weight, rot free hull isn't so much an issue, as the rest of the SOR. Unless you're only going to motor short distances, electric isn't the way to go. The battery bank necessary for anything close to a reasonable range, will defeat all of the weight savings of the build and hardware decisions.
     
  5. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Actually, the great thing about sharpies is that they can be built properly with rather low quality materials. For masts, a couple of pine trees will do nicely. You are trying to put lipstick on a pig.
     
  6. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Good point Gonzo, a friend of mine has an Egret sharpie built from wooden boat plans. He sails it out of Bokeelia, Florida and has sailed it as far as the Dry Tortugas a couple of times. He didnt build the boat but did build the spars from selected Radiata pine from a big box store, hes 70 yrs old and when hes preparing to put the boat away for the summer he takes the freestanding masts out by himself by lifting them straight up and tossing them in the water and then retrieving them with the halyard. I love simple.
    Steve.
     
  7. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I had one of the Chapelle sharpies. The masts were not too straight but worked fine. They were trees with the branches cut off and de-barked. Sharpies need some weight to sail well. I suppose it could be build lightly for trailering, with a double bottom for water ballast. However, keeping it simple and cheap seems to make sense with the design.
     
  8. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Well, i suppose you could build one light but build the bottom heavy where you want it strong for beaching. Actually my friend with the egret has apparently recently aquired a Chapelle sharpie which he told me has as much sail as egret but much lighter,open boat i think,ive not seen it.
    Steve.
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There are a couple of ways to look at a sharpie type hull: one being the traditional, moderately heavy, usually thick bottomed hull form, like the Egret's of the world, but the other is the also traditional, but typically race version, which were much better in most regards, being lighter and having much less burden. These light ones are the boats that have brought the sharpie's reputation up into mystical form.

    The light sharpie has much less beam carried into the ends and handles better as a result. Of course it can't carry as much of a load and is even more sensitive to CG location then the heavier more burdened versions, which are also sensitive to CG height.

    The heavy sharpie is a better sea boat, but not as fast. The lighter sharpie is a better sailor, but can kick your butt in a rough slosh. It's not a shape well suited to offshore work without some major concessions to ultimate stability (fixed ballasted appendages usually). For coastal work, it's about the best bang for the buck.
     

  10. winter
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    winter New Member

    Parker Marine Entrp. Plans

    Yesterday 2 sets of plans for Sharpies arrived from Reuel Parker...
    One set for his version of Egret, similar to Wooden Boats plan#42 lines.
    And a set for a 35" New Haven type. ( I find this one most interesting)
    I am taken by the scant use of materials. Has anyone in the forum ever built these versions?

    A couple of weeks ago I talked to Boat designer by the name of Iain Oughtred About his "Haiku." The plans are $500 USD shipped. Next on my list for oggleing...
    I want a head full designs before doing too much. Anyone have more suggestions for more Sharpie scantlings/lines?
    The response from PAR is getting close to my intent, "best bang for the buck."

    An amend...Not water ballasted, molded integral fresh 50gal. water tank. As a drink, and a shower is usually all that will bring me back in. Food grade epoxy tank suggestions?

    And yes, electric power, wind/propeller/photovoltaic...as /sail/pole/oars seem to work OK close to shore... Just thought that motors were better efficiency than a decade ago, batteries too? Just a thought...using electric? As most of the use would be in and out of the marina, anchor/run LED type lights...Total of 2 hrs run time for the motor? Kinda hard to make petrol/diesel fuel at Horn Island? Besides, is it possible to fill ones tank while idlely tied up @ the marina, or at anchor? And yes, I fool around with one of those dumb, not-so-smart phones...They got all kinda fun crap on em. Heheh cut me some slack... Yes I'm also thinking electricity and brine/simplicity do not mix...but worth a try? Sealed motor cycle batteries instead of bricks/cement for ballast? Hmmm

    I like this phrase!
    "just way over the top for the rational sailor..."

    And it is a Hell of a lot a Fun to sail wing&wing right up on a crowded beach!

    Had a Viking funeral for the rotten, inspiring, aged, ply Sharpie of my past...Need something new!

    Thank You for your input!

    Dan
     
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