Ultimate Florida Challenge boat for 2012

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by spidennis, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    I haven't yet weighed my hulls but it all moves easy in the portage mode on wheels. With the video, see is believing. Even the Kruger sailing canoe which is at the moment the most popular craft for the ufc is heavy with all the gear. I will be doing more extensive portage tests, but first it's got to be displayed for the lighted christmas street parade in which it will enter soon and that will be about 6 miles or so, all in direct portage mode proving it works.
     
  2. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Here is another youtube video clip ...
    this time it's a cart to aid in the demo of the folding the hulls together design.
    Instead of doing this on the water, I want to be able to test out the folding and unfolding in my driveway. with pulling on a line I'll have it fold up, tug on another and it will expand back out again.

    Note: the hulls are in the simulated folded position with those two short wooden cross members. Next there will be the folding assembly with the platform on top. stay tuned , there's more to come .......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4WTB807nL8
     
  3. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    a little knowledge can be dangerous ....
    now I can share youtube videos!
    and you can now see just what still photos can't show you ......

    and here is my small model going thru the folding operation.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXE8GA4gGYI
     
  4. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    Cool, I like your clever method of folding.

    I have 2 different methods used on my hard frame kick boat pontoons to bring the hulls together. One is based on locking hinges at each pontoon. That allows the pontoons to swing inward to the point where they almost touch for the fold in mode, then outward beyond the length of the struts in the open mode. Works well with symmetrical tubular hulls, but maybe not as well for your more streamlined knife shaped hulls. Something like http://www.4seasonsfly.com/11939/234630/Float-Tubes/Outcast-Discovery-Trekker.html

    The other method is based on a stiff aluminum strut on each hull with short sets of 2 hollow receiver aluminum pipes welded to the strut at 90 degrees and then attached to the hulls. The hull receiver pipes are reamed to fit standard pipe OD, so I can use in the open mode by locking at the end of standard pipe lengths available anywhere. The pipes are removed in fold mode and a shorter pipe could be substituted in folded mode. In practice, I don't use the folded mode much with either setup as I have inflatable pontoons and a trampoline mesh floor. Any standard pipes that are used as struts between hulls are purchased on location. The advantage is you don't have to transport heavy and bulky long struts to the city where you would assemble the boat. The whole inflatable kickboat pontoon thus fits in a single standard airline bag, is lightweight (20#) and fairly fast for an inflatable. These setups have been used to explore waters in remote cities when traveling by commercial air, even the bay at sheltered areas of SPI. An inflatable kayak would not be as comfortable over days, and not as stable or dry and harder to motorize with a flex shaft drive. Something like http://www.prophish.com/wskp-1-2.html Anyway, maybe this second method might be a possible consideration as you could glass the receiver pipes directly into your hulls....

    Hope this helps.

    Porta


     
  5. Lurvio
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    Lurvio Mad scientist

    I can see you are well on your way with the design, so these ideas are a bit late, but maybe for 2014? :) Reading this thread, I came up with a question and an idea. I could not find any direct mention of propeller drives, are they forbitten or just un-thought of? I understand shallows could be a problem, but thats only small part of the whole race.

    The idea part involves something like this:
    HP Velotehchnik - Scorpion
    The trike could be used as is to cover the land distances (with the boat parts on tow), and dropped in between the hulls (wheels detached) and the trikes drive system connected to the boats propulsion system for the water distances.

    The pros I can see are good ergonomy for a pedal driven system, less un-used weight (compared to a bicycle that probably would be un-useful for water distances) and quite low CoG. I'm sure there are cons also, one that came to mind is complexity of the trike itself, but bicycle parts are pretty reliable.

    Comments, is this a doomed idea or a winner some day?

    Lurvio
     
  6. Knut Sand
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    Knut Sand Senior Member

    Looks as you have two bows, the water collected between these, will "stamp", sort of? What about something that look like a single hull, one bow, when folded together? (Paddeling, rowing mode). The folding mechanism need to be designed to take some beating, or to be designed to break along determined paths, with planned for repair possibilities.
     
  7. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Porta,
    Yeah, I've seen that prophish boat way back before I started this whole ufc boat idea and thought that was really cool. To do a trip from NY to Mexico on peddle power alone, most impressive! It was things like this that started adding up into a swirling mass of gasses ..... then I learned about the ufc race and as I studied it, the more all these ideas started to solidify. Now I'm standing on the planet of my ufc boat and everything else revolves around it!

    .... and you mention some swinging options, and a few more came to mind. Hummm....... now what to use ...... I'll have to dwell on this a bit more before I go ahead and put it together. Initially I'll just get something together that represents what I'm trying to do, but it will be a working model, just out of 2x4 and plywood. Models show me things that just imagination can't.
     

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  8. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Lurvio,
    I can see we are on the same page! My small model was ok to relay the idea, but when I get the full scale model I'll really be able to look at the design of intergrating a recumbent bike into the prop propulsion and land propulsion. I've had the idea for while, and others can see the possibility as well. But without the 1:1 working model, I can't really see the details of it working. 2012 or 2014 oh yes, this idea will be explored! Stick around, I'll need more ideas when that time comes around! Have you seen the microship? now that had some funky wheels!
     

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  9. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Yup, this is a concern, and maybe one of my cons to my pros with this whole plan. I hope not to be in the folded position while rowing/paddling/peddling for very long.

    Yup, the folding system needs to be strong ..... my protoype 1:1 model will be 2x4 lumber and plywood (from the backyard), but later I might try what the seaclipper uses, and then aluminum square tubing/pipe.
     

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  10. WickedGood

    WickedGood Guest

    Make your folding Cat boat Not Folding. Just 8 ft wide and 24 ft long.

    Add a Crew Member and both out you get sliding seat rowing rigs.

    Both of you also get Mountain bikes and both tow the Cat.

    Add One high aspect Mast that folds on a pivot and run Maine, Jib & Spiiniker

    On guy sails while the other sleeps when you have wind and you go non stop 24 hours for 2 days. at 10 kts or better
     
  11. Lurvio
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    Lurvio Mad scientist

    Now thats some weird looking thinghy. :p The wheels look sturdy enough, but I'd think there would be more elegant solutions.

    I'll sketch my idea a bit tonight, I already have a recumbent trike frame drawn in cad, so it's not much trouble. In what class are you aiming for? And I'm sure I will see where this thread leads. :)

    Lurvio
     
  12. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    I'll be in class 5 (multihulls). And I agree, there are more ways to skin a cat than the way microcruiser boat did it. I've seen all kinds of options out there while getting lost on the web ......
     

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  13. spidennis
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    After I do it solo once or twice, I'd like to do it with a crew and really push the sailing aspect for all it's worth, non-stop sailing. But without folding there's just much of a chance of towing the craft on the highway without getting run over by the logging trucks and casuing traffic problems. I could take the boat apart, but then that adds all kinds of other problems. The single rig would get in the way of my other features, hence the biplane rig. For the EC race I might go with a single rig though, as I'd not be using any of the ufc features. Randy Smyth for the NCC used a canoe paddle on his cat, but was going with the current, otherwise ...... well ....... but that was a different race, different course, different conditions ....
    see him doing it here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynszNTARLcw
     
  14. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    Here is a link on this forum all about peddle prop power:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/pedal-powered-boats-23345.html

    Watertribe races don't have a ruling against peddle prop drive and one guy (pelican) used the Hobie Mirage Drive in the tandem AI boat on the last ufc. Since the the ufc watertribe races are so new, designs are still being thought out. If water levels are low for a year there could be shallow areas, also blow down is a problem . Another reason for the folding design while underway, got to get thru the narrow stuff somehow! I can also time sleep cycles for when the tide would be right for me. Sleeping on the boat would make this much easier.
     

  15. spidennis
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    spidennis Chief Sawdust Sweeper

    ply/foam sandwich platforms

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUUDkrRUAwY

    video of my model showing center platform with side platforms folding onto the center one. I'm thinking ply/foam sandwich with glass on underside and maybe a few stringers for added support. The center will have the folding mechanics built into it and will have to be built stoutly. with a full solid deck i can ride pretty dry I'd think. This is resembling the homebuilt wooden tornados of the early 80s ....
     

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