twin fin keel cooler?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by pha7env, Feb 16, 2015.

  1. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    This is odd. Has anyone heard of, or seen a twin engine, twin keel, keel cooled boat, where the twin keels are built dynamically like a wing with hollow center that holds cooling water. The rudder shaft runs through keels and is isolated by a pipe. the keels have attached skegs that secure the bottom of rudder. To top that, the keel water is pumped by an engine driven pump to the exchanger on a marine lehman and back to fin. The engine water operate through engine and cools exhaust and through exchanger back into engine with standard water pump. Each engine is cooled by one fin keel and is isolated from the other. OK, ready, set, comment.... and thanks! Oh, 55 foot steel trawler for cruising, living aboard.
     
  2. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    With the ease with which a portion of a steel hull can have a water cooling section , built in the hull,that is easy to maintain , what would be gained?

    The math for a cooling section is a snap, in many books .

    Combining systems stuff , to me only adds expense and increases maint difficulty .

    What do you think would be gained by a complex setup?

    Beefing the twin keels (as the Brits do) so the boat can stand easily while taking the ground would be a constructive addition.
     
  3. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    This is not theory or design. This is what cools the boat that we just bought. Been trying to get into the head of the guy, Heinz Neidling, that built it. Its redundant and the extra pump will draw a little extra power, but the it does put two distinct walls between seawater and engine, which is not a huge concern. The main advantage i see over normal keel cooled systems is that it does use a marinized exhaust manifold cooler which keeps the manifold heat from warming the ER and cools exhaust some to keep the stack cooler. .On the other hand the ford lehman(american diesel) turns a doubles or triples the value and cost of the engine over a good used 120 hp tractor engine, or non turboed Cummins 6bt. I sure would not do it in a build. More money, more work. Heck, he could have air conditioned the engine room for less. I was amazed. Then "expert", totally type A, engine guy that my broker conned me into getting to check engines, was so confused that this redneck farmer had to explain. As i said, she's an odd bird. Not sure how strong the keels are. The surveyor was an not a genius, and had quite a bit of trouble reading his own ultrasound. I think that the twin keels might be strong enough to stand her now. Has steel channel coming out of rear to skeg the rudder. I have some pix, but don't know how to put them on here. I kno
     
  4. kapnD
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: hawaii, usa

    kapnD Senior Member

    Sounds like the whole works is redundant. Is all this accessible for cleaning and painting?
    Isn't all this stuff under the boat going to create a lot of drag?
    Your heat exchanger is designed tough enough to swallow salt water.
    I would like to see some pics, it's really not that difficult to post them on here.
    Just use the "go advanced" button and "add attachments" will allow you to select the photos off your computer to use.
     
  5. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The biggest problem I see with installed keel cooling is over cooling.

    This is simply solved with a proper by pass thermostat , yet few are installed.

    The engine coolant goes out to the keel cooler and the return is controlled to about 20 deg cooler by passing some departing coolant with the colder return fluid.
     
  6. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    Kapn D, all is accessible, and as for drag, not sure there is much more than any twin keel, but surely some.

    Fred, Yes, on seatrial, the engine was slow to come to temp, and stayed steady, even during w.o.t. testing, but when throttle is brought to idle, temp drops to around 120 really quick, which freaked the "engine genius"/waste of money we paid to much to do very little. I asked him if he checked for a thermostat, and he said, "no, but there should be". Well DUH!! So, yes, bypass thermostats are in her future! http://www.boatquest.com/listing/155020/1973-55-ft-dot--custom-heinz-niedling-trawler.html#.VONhIS5QAtd
     

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  7. kapnD
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: hawaii, usa

    kapnD Senior Member

    Thanks for the posting the pics, worth a thousand words!
    Not near as klunky looking as I had at first imagined.
    I am guessing that the fattened keels are filled with coolant?
    The surveyor was justifiably freaked out, 120 deg is way too cool.
     
  8. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    A thermostat should be in the stock engine , but that does not solve the over cooling .

    Only a second thermostat can solve the hassle of too cold return water.
     
  9. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    Yes to coolant in keel swells. Now is that keel cooling or what. And as for the 120, i am heading to the boat next week, and i expect to find no thermostat in the engine outlet. If there is, then one of the first things we do to her is put a thermostat and bypass on the keel side. Will climb that hill when i get to her.
     

  10. pha7env
    Joined: Aug 2011
    Posts: 90
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    Location: Lake Dannelly, Alabama River

    pha7env Junior Member

    We are heading to the boat Monday, hopefully, to do some electrical, clean the fuel, do some roll timing, and prep her for the trek home. I will check, but being that she will be steady for most of day, most of the way home, we will get into adding thermostats once we get her home.
     
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