turny transome , beach cat

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by matt H., May 1, 2010.

  1. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    working on a design to keep the rudder , a rudder and not a elevator
     

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  2. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    turny transome.jpg
     
  3. DrCraze
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    DrCraze Junior Member

    Simple, stop leaving the the sail hoisted on a blustery day on the beach.
     
  4. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    thanks for the tip :confused:
     
  5. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Matt; Why? When you are flying a hull you are somewhere around 12 degrees heel. The lift component resulting from that angle is not a big one. More than that, the small lift. when the rudder becomes a partial elevator, could be advantageous if you utilize it imaginatively.
     
  6. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    you know Im kinda new to this sailing thing , so new I have yet to sail
    my own boat . but I like reinvent things .
    Sooooo.

    I would imagine flying a hull would be a lot like driving a car on two wheels .
    the wheels pushing into the ground , turned in one direction


    if only the boat or car steering could go from car to motor cycle steering .
    plum of the steering device, keeping it a turning device at all crafts inclination angles .

    there are much better and safer ways of creating lift . but keep the rudder operation and elevator separate please .



    one would think the lift would be good, but if turned the other way would
    push the front end into the water and pitch pole ( I believe they call it )

    boats in many ways operate on one dimension, unlike a plane that flys in two dimension and a helicopter in three dimensions
    a rudder needs to stay a rudder on a boat
     
  7. SamSam
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    SamSam Senior Member

    That rudder is broken, right? I don't understand what you're asking.
     
  8. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    left, not right . the picture is of a mock up design . It still has some work
    to be done to be called a complete turny transom .

    pin-dulum
    the top pin pivots on one L/R axis , as does the rudder preforms its normal operational pivot

    dulum
    I still need to complete the guide rail so the bottom pin locks and slides to different angles









    disclaimer :

    no rudders were harmed in the taking of this photo
     
  9. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Matt; you are wasting your time on this project. The benefit derived from your thoughtful work will not amount to any measureable increase in performance. Ask yourself why would world class, megabuck, ultimate high tech, cats not use a similar scheme if there was merit.

    The boat is unlikely to pitch pole if you turn the rudder downwind rather than upwind. It is subject to pitch pole if and when you are traveling at speed into waves whose period can allow the boat to jump over one wave and stick its nose into the next wave. This is usually the result of burying the lee bow.

    I will regale you with the facts about motorcycle vs automobile cornering ability in another post.

    Keep thinking, but keep in mind that there is no need to re-invent the wheel.
     
  10. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    funny as an inventor Ive heard that more than once ,

    I will say though the wheel will never be finished
    as materials/tools tec. and humans advance so will the wheel.

    driving around on wood and metal wheels .

    naaysay:
    go tell a tire company "stop reinventing the wheel"
    it has already been invented .
    you will sound more like a jack *** than stud.

    then drive off on into the sunset on wood / steel wheels pulled by a horse.

    I kinda think I have a grasp on how some things work and think its time for the rudder to be reinvented.

    peace and my your transom someday turn on a perfect plumb angled rudder.
     
  11. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    dear mods of boat design .net,

    no need to redesign boats because every thing has already been invented so no need for this forum
     
  12. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    No offense inended, Matt. I am guilty of making a faulty assumption. I assumed that you posted to get some feed back from others who have extensive experience with boats.

    Peace and "may the force be with you".
     
  13. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    no offense taken , more or less given offense ah more like defense

    anywho: since your man of boats tell me what makes a boat fast and safe?
     
  14. kapnD
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    kapnD Senior Member

    I think the rudder is supposed to stall at high angle of heel. Something about getting the bow back into the wind and the hull back onto the water.
    Hope you have your righting lines rigged!
    Peace love and happiness
    May the wind at your back
    not be your own!
     

  15. matt H.
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    matt H. Junior Member

    wouldn't a rudder that was fully functioning as a rudder better steer the boat

    if your rudder is ( lets guess ) 30-40 percent elevator and 60-70 percent rudder,

    now if your rudder was 100 percent rudder and 0 percent elevator ?
    simply = more control



    if a rudder is 30-40 percent elevator on a one dimensional playing field
    give or take less than 10 percent of the second lateral dimension
    that ten percent walks a very fine line of lift and mostly a position of drag
    in the one dimension of water .
    as a whole/scale level water is flat ,on top, under or just above .

    fine line of being under or on top when a constant just above is what you want .


    I do indeed hope I have enough left over rope to right this thing.
     
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