Turning a 747-200 into a hybrid powered trimaran

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by pansalacia, Sep 27, 2010.

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  1. MikeJohns
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    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Just a pity that he's right isn't it ! I'm not sure if I could tell you the same thing any more diplomatically. But it's a flight of fantasy.

    Oh we use water for testing pressure vessels because of danger and stored energy.
     
  2. Anytec1210
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Anytec1210 Junior Member

    If you have a 747 lying around and feel creative you could turn it into a hotel. It´s been done before and will ensure that those yellow fancy looking lifejackets stays where the should be "under the seat". www.jumbostay.se

    [​IMG]
     
  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Yes,

    that is a precedence. And you should take that as the best advice you could harvest here!

    Leave all these naysayers and killjoys with their annoying standards, rules and regulations and focus on your idea!

    It is a marvelous idea!

    Unfortunately you are on the wrong forum here, leave it!

    Ohh, and you might be interested in a redesign of your craft.
    In Murmansk they have some Navy surplus coming with a built in Hybrid propulsion already!
    They give it away!

    Regards
    Richard
     
  4. Anytec1210
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    Anytec1210 Junior Member

    I have learned that there are not many problems in the world, and that most of the problems you will face, are problems that someone else already solved.

    As pointed out, there are some difficulties to handle in order to turn a 747 into just any kind of floating item. However, if you could reconsider this, there might be a better choice available.

    So, when you have a chance to pass your local “Russian Military Surplus Store”. Take a stroll down the transport isle until you find the Ekranoplan section. Look for a good looking fuselage and bring it home.

    Without knowing the specs (and I seriously have no intention to spend any time to find out either, so if anyone with deeper constructional knowledge corrects me here, I wouldn’t be surprised) this will provide you not only with a hull that withstands water, but also with enough integrity to hopefully keep together when afloat.

    (With a serious amount if irony) Good Luck!

    [​IMG]
     
  5. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Of course even with Soviet Slave Labor , they could not maintain this aircraft.

    FF
     
  6. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    I believe your idea would indeed have a serious potential to become a high-speed ferry. High-speed plunging towards the sea floor, I mean. :rolleyes:

    First, let me tell you something about your manners. You have come here and have insulted one of the most knowledgeable people in this forum, Ad Hoc, argumenting your views with ridiculous stories like the one about "filling the entire fuselage with water and pressurize it till it fails".

    Now, since you appear to know (in your view) everything about aircraft and ships, do you also know what is the test pressure for aircraft structures? And do you know what is the minimum required pressure load for ship hulls? Try to find out these values and see how do they compare to each other. I am anticipating that you'll find a bad surprise.
    But that's not all. Airplanes are not designed to withstand the bending loads due to waves, for example. The ammount of work and investments required to reinforce the 747 structure in order to meet the minimum structural requirements by any ship classificatrion society or governamental rule would be impressive.

    Ilan Voyager has also correctly noted the corrosion problem related to type of alloys used for aircraft structures.

    So, all in all, you goal "to create a low cost high speed ferries or cargo carriers" might be noble but the path undertaken is completely wrong. You could as well take a dismissed train and convert it to a low-cost array of barges. That's about equally sound as your idea about 747 modified into a hybrid ferry.

    But if it all sounds like unworthy opinions to you, then I say - what the hell:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. pansalacia
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    pansalacia Junior Member

    I should have known better, after having seen some of the direction other threads have gone that I shouldn't have bothered. without even understanding or offering any real advise you only focus on single items and hinge my entire idea on it.
    you want to talk about metal, fine, treating and maintaining and applying protective paint system over aluminum is achievable.
    and considering that a secondary hull is probably needed, that secondary hull can be fabricated from the series 5 alloys.
    that's go over the comments that have been presented:
    Ad Hoc:

    "You must first consider that the difference in density between air and SW is roughly 800. Thus any loads that are applicable to structural design of an aircraft is significantly different from that of a sea going vessel.

    The current structural arrangement of such planes would not pass the minimum structural requirements using Classification Society rules."

    NO KIDDING! really.. i didn't know airplanes fly and ships float and the structures are designed for different purposes.. when i said help with understanding structural limitations i was assuming you "experts" would offer some advice on structural enhancements, what would be needed to strength the hull to take the punishment of the sea.. a secondary structure immediately below the main fuselage perhaps, or internal reinforcements.. those were the feed back i expected.

    "Then the issue of evacuation and safety…..well, there is no place to safely muster and no location for liferafts etc etc…the list is endless."

    maybe i will put in ejection seats.. again, no real input here, to me this is a close minded view. my answer.. the list is endless for resolving that.

    "Finally damage stability…there is no min 100% reserve buoyancy for starters…also, in the current arrangement, it’ll sink when taking raking damage, as currently require under the HSC Code."

    ok, i don't know the code, but again to assume that i didn't think about it is very presumptuous. bulk heads, compartments secondary hull. again, not a solution, but a dismissive assumption.

    "This is just a “coffee time” idea I am afraid. Nice pictures, but will not translate into real world usage, just like a school boys fantasy or a scene from a Transformer movie"

    really? really? if this statement is nothing but arrogance then what is.

    if he is just a professional expert then offer something constructive, as far as i read it, the entire thing is nothing but criticism.

    Ilan Voyager:
    thank you for the first real constructive comment about alloys thank you!
    i have thought about that before and i strongly believe that by use of a coating, and painting system with a lower secondary hull constructed from a 5 series alloy will help to maintain its integrity. Painting systems have come a long way. and maybe it will lead to a development of a new and unique solution with a painting manufacturer.

    and yes the morphing with the computer is very funny.. the only tool i have at present is photoshop. and i am trying to quickly express my ideas.

    Messabout: thank you, i am sure Ad Hoc might be a respected professional, but again, his comments were dismissive not constructive, and frankly, yes, arrogant.. and to add that last comment is a bit over the top. it's like adding salt to the wounds.. if he is truly a professional, than teach, don't degrade my idea. i am open to discussions and to realize that certain things are not possible, but to out right dismiss an idea to me is not a very professional attitude.

    Mike Jones: pointless comment
    anytec1210: pointless comment
    Apex 1: sounds like i am on the wrong forum, seems like most are here to only offer criticisms and shoot downs.. ha, i just made a funny shoot him down.. hahaha...
    Anytec1210: do those missiles come with it?
    daiguiri:

    thanks for the semi-serious reply..
    but let me ask you a legitimate question.
    If say it is too expensive to internally modify the 747 hull but instead, what would be the cost difference between building just the main hull for a 200 ft yacht vs. completing with the upper deck.
    if for a moment just agree with me that a 747 fuselage costs $100k stripped out and be modified to be mated so it can be used as an upper deck would that be cheaper?
    and surely once you people let me know what kinda of reinforcement i might need maybe i can use that knowledge to do some calculations on the difficulties or cost implications. anybody?

    again, i took back what i said about hybrid, i meant multiple source of power, using the wing sail, using solar power or using a diesel generator to power electric drives.


    and the purpose of me posting this is to understand the cost implications that may determine the validity of my idea.
    want to educate me fine, no sarcasm needed.
    want to comment i welcome it, but don't assume i am an idiot and didn't think about my idea.
    If I knew everything there is to know about ship design.. i wouldn't be here.
    but if all you so called "professionals" are only interested in treating me like an idiot, berate me, or criticism my idea without offering any constructive comments or discussions, then yes i will say you are an arrogant bunch.

    and if this continues, then yes i will leave this forum.
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You are a very big and uneducated *******............

    It is not that you would not get proper advice here, but you show that you are unwilling to learn. One example:

    Ilan told you in pretty clear words that your hull will disappear like butter in the sun.
    You should have asked how to avoid that, if possible. But instead you try to tell us that YOU know already how to cope with that problem.

    We have forgotten more about these questions, than you will ever learn. Go idiot follow stubbornly your dreams.............

    Bye, bye
     
  9. pansalacia
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    pansalacia Junior Member


    wow reduced down to cursing, look who is uneducated
     
  10. pansalacia
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    pansalacia Junior Member

    and that's coming from a 61 yr old.. very impressive i guess age hasn't gained you any perspective or wisdom.
     
  11. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design


    Look, this is what you have asked in your first post:
    "Any advise on structural limitation, hull design and requirements to convert an airplane hull into a high speed trimaran is also appreciated."​

    That is exactly what you've got, but for some reason you have taken it as personal attack to your name, honour and intelligence.

    And, unfortunately, you are now clashing with two persons who could have been your best sources of information regarding the costs of conversion - Apex1 and Ad Hoc, since they both have extensive hands-on experience with ship-size projects.

    You've done it all wrong mate, sorry.
     
  12. pansalacia
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    pansalacia Junior Member

    Daiquiri, i was reading thru Ad Hoc's comments, no problems, and i might have accepted the critique but to add that last sentence.. is frankly insulting no matter what context it is in.

    as for Apex 1, that's ok, i don't need his advice, don't know his complete background, but looking at his work posted i wouldn't think he will be much help anyways.

    i am envisioning an uncharted territory with my idea, i know that, but everyone so far has only shot me down, and it's the tone of voice everyone is writing in, as if there is no possibilities at all to resolve any of the issues they mentioned, this is not what i expected at all.
    i do want to learn and discuss, and noone has told me what is possible, only what is not possible.
    very disappointing to say the least.
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No buddy, you did NOT come here for advice and assistance. You came here to get your preconception confirmed by pro´s.
    That did not happen, because there is just plain nothing in your concept which is worth a second thought.
    The mentioned train conversion was the better idea!

    And as it is everytime again, when the bubble gets blown the dreamers become hostile and insulting.

    Face it, you failed.
     
  14. pansalacia
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    pansalacia Junior Member

    your lack of professionalism amuses me.
    dreamers bring progress, shakes the world, brings new ideas to light, and make happen what was once thought impossible.
    don't get me wrong, the Vicem yachts look gorgeous, has beautiful craftsmanship, and sure are fancy.

    but they are nothing but fancy toys for rich people.
    not sure if you are designer or a builder.
    but do you ever for one second consider the impact you have on the environment when you build your boat?
    where is the wood from? are they from sustainable forests? how about the teak you use on your decks? where are they from? what forest did you have to clear to make these decks? or maybe you imported them from another country, where they are cutting down forest that are irreplaceable? what happens then? all the trees you cut down to build your ships adds to the pressure of having the ocean soak up the CO2, and that resulting in rising of the ocean temperatures, which in turn kills off the corals, the corals that provide the sanctuary for nurseries of the ocean life around the world. if the coral reefs collapse then the world's fish supply collapse, and with that there will be world hunger for the many of the coastal countries that depends on fishery to survive for food and economy, which will then lead to the collapse of economies around the world, and this is not my saying, it's all written in the UN report as part of the climate change study.

    how about your belching fossil fuel powered engines, do your boats measure in gallons per hour?

    do you know what kind of pollution you are dumping straight into the ocean?

    If you learn nothing from what i am trying to do learn this. There is a new generation of thinkers who cares about the environment and the cost to the environment on how things are built, used and designed.

    When do you stop to look around you and realize that the ocean is not free. you carelessly continue to design and produce boats that are outdated, inefficient and the price you paid in terms of environment to build these ships.

    instead on focusing on what is possible, or what it means, if the possibility to reuse airline hulls for building green ships, would mean saving that much more energy, fuel and carbon footprint than to recycle them.

    over a 100 747's are expected to retire, there is no space to store them, and to scrap them and recycle them is the only other option.

    providing a cheap multi purpose ship for commercial use that is green allows a step in the right way of thinking towards helping our environment.

    take it what you well, but just because you can't see the possibilities and because of your limited vision, don't tell me it's impossible.

    the world is shifting, and those like you who are stuck in the old ways will be left behind.
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You don´t get it, do you?

    Your hull will be scuttled in days, no matter how much you want to ignore that!
    It is not possible to just paint it. It corrodes away faster than it will ever move.

    So much about that.

    Not worth to comment on your drivel about my abilities and my responsibilities for our environment.

    Now get your gas guzzler out of the garage and leave this place, you are not welcome.
     
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