Turmoil in Egypt

Well said, AH.
Egypt certainly has a long way to go. I would say that most Egyptians
(especially the poor uneducated ones) don't even know what some of
those institutions are. How could they after so many years under military
rule? Has there ever been a relatively free press in Egypt?

As for imperfect democracies... There are so many to choose from.
Look at the UK which has an un-elected House of Lords. I half expect them
to include Druids, elves and wizards one day!

So much also depends on who holds the reins of power. Vulkyn rightly
decries the use of torture by the MB, but his country was used for
extraordinary rendition by the USA, the very country he cites as an example
of a "functioning democracy".

I wish I could be more confident about Egypt's immediate prospects, but I
think it is either going to continue being a slaughterhouse, or if the military
take control, it will be a return to the old days of secret trials, torture
chambers and repression.

 

I'd rather we pass on that.
I was going to suggest the Belgians, French, Dutch, Italians, Germans or Brits,
but they all seem to have a tainted history when it comes to various regions of
Africa.

Maybe just let the Chinese sort it out.

 

That is the hallmark of Fascism, Socialism, and Communism.

Democracy is about government not building a 'state' religion.

 

thats a european idea

 

Take guns away from crazies, progressives, and liberals .... That would shut down the 90% of murders and mass killings the liberals hold up as evidence gun rights do not work ....

 

Safe places have space and resources.

 

Texas, Russia, Australia, Chile (sometimes), Argentina, Alaska, some parts of Canada, Ukraine, Montana, part of Utah, part of Arizona and New Mexico, and Antarctica.

Not many places left with resources and space to accommodate their people.

 

I doubt Vulkyn cares what you think of American liberals and 2nd Amendment rights, Wayne... the internet is full of places to sound off on those subjects, and I see no reason to hijack this thread for more of the same.

 

Maybe Egypt needs another revolution.
OTOH...
"Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy" - Franz Kafka.

 

For sure I'm convinced Egypt needs nobodys 'help' on it's way to to democracy.
My thoughts?
MB leaders are a bunch of fasists neither willing nor doing anything that doesn't fit their dogma. During their reign they didn't listen to anyone elses opinion, just enforced their power. So it really amazes me how the western governments are 'feeding the troll'.
During my stay the sit ons were peacefull but every friday evening in some place they started a 'march' to start trouble and everywhere they got into fights with local residents. Locals throwing stones and MB firing bird shots on them. The only purpose such marches had was to provoke violence and I really wonder how long it took before drastic actions started (by goverment, security, military).

BR Teddy

 

Can you elaborate on that if you have time.
From what I have read, Germans and the UK are in a bit of a quandary as to
how to handle the MB.
On one hand, they must treat it as a legitimate government; on the other
they recognize that the protests that overthrew Morsi were very popular and
demand respect.

Maybe we read different reports.

 

The problem was simple, both choices where bad !
Shafik represented the old regime every one hated, Morsi represented the MB that every one hated.
However at the time a lot of people chose the MB because they said "they cant be worse than Mubarak, what could go wrong ?" The MB seemed organised and they might just be the right people for now.

So in reality Morsi only had around 6 million votes true supporters (part who belong to MB and the others where islamic parties which 2 month ago got the bad end of the stick by the MB and turned on Morsi). The rest where Shafik haters, people fed up with the old regime and people who thought MB will in fact be more democratic than Mubark / shafik.

i think total number of eligible voters was 45% or less.

 

Thats a very down to earth view Teddy. Very insightful and true, one major problem is the MB have lost the support of the public, the police, the judicial system and the Army (and most other state bodies). They have managed to alienate themselves from every one else.
That's why it was very easy for them to be removed from power, frankly every one hates them now ....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safwat_Hegazy

Just got arrested this morning .... looked him over wiki and he is banned in the UK ( list of "Individuals banned from the UK for stirring-up hatred).

Those are the kind of people who where running OUR country and the world is surprised we kicked them out .....

 

Finally some one who has a clue ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WHtU0nlBnwk#t=25