Turmoil in Egypt

Sorry, but I get a real laugh out of Egypt's idea of democracy, especially when
it comes to the military.
In what other "truly democratic systems" does the military not have to reveal
its budget and owns pasta and cement factories, hotels and service stations?

 

Wayne, I think I see what you mean . . .

 

Not funny Leo..

 

Imagine what the military in Burma owns

 

Maybe not, but true nevertheless.

 

Sure, but nobody thinks of Burma as a democracy.

In a way, we are being asked to think of Egypt's army as saviours of Egypt's
fledging democracy. But if you look at their record and their wealth it's hard to
believe that is what will happen.

Secondly, I'm not convinced that an over-whelming majority of Egyptians are
committed to democracy. The MB and other Islamist parties got a substantial
proportion of the vote and they are not necessarily committed to a lot of the
same democractic institutions that you and I take for granted.

 

I am.. Thou what you and I think has nothing to do with reality. But I was there last month so maybe I have a bit of insight.

 

My impression is that the educated class in Egypt truely wants a functioning democracy.

 

13 million is hardly substantial he only won by 2 %

Unfortunately the number of people who voted was poor at best. Had more people voted things would have been a lot different.

I guess one of the major problem is that Egypt is indeed very young in politics and democracy ..... we have a LOT to learn and i do hope we learn it very VERY quickly ...

 

You never shared your experience on the trip teddy .... what was your impression ? And you where in a rather charged period prior to the explosion ...

 

In the presidential elections the voters were given the choice between Morsi of the MB, and Shafik - the former PM under Mubarrak. Shafik (PM of Musharaff government) seemed a poor alternative to Morsi and perhaps part of the reason for poor voter turnout.

Vulkyn, being much closer to the action, I wonder if you had any comments about that.

 

good point. america have more problems than most. they should be looking after their own people not trying to run everyone elses countrys. that poor aussie bloke was out for a run and gets shot dead by some black kids and a white trash kid because they were bored. gotta love them gun laws. yee haw.

 

The major thing to “learn” is that casting a vote to elect a leader is not a symbol or criterion for democracy. The voting is the icing on the cake, so to speak.

If the institutions, the infrastructure, the legal system the separation of “church and state” and law enforcement are not open transparent, independent and well established, then no amount of window dressing of “we voted for our leader” will convince anyone that a country is free and democratic. Just look at Zimbabwe, or Iran, for example. They all voted “freely” for their leaders!...but what is behind this “freely elected” vote in terms of transparency independence and accountability?...nothing!

Having a vote is not the be all and end all of democracy; institutions need to be in place for that to occur then the “icing on the cake” is the vote to elect a leader to govern the country in such a manner as befits the institutions that are set up. It has taken Europe many centuries to get to where they are now, and even now, they are not perfect. But,…. the systems are there as is the accountability and transparency, most of the time!

 

One thing to learn is that good organisation is very important. That's why
the MB were able to get into power with their numbers.
Now you have to claw all that back using the army, and using petitions and
protests. Out-voting them in the first place would have been a better way

 

Egyptians have to get their own act together and work it out. Whatever we try to do they'll hate us for it and it probably won't work. Give Egypt 10 to 20 years and it will work itself out. Or let the Australians try to help this time