Turmoil in Egypt

I'm a little skeptical of the theory that some anti-Mubarek force is mostly responsible for the attacks on protesters and journalists to discredit him. The attackers aren't necessarily taking orders from Mubarek, but I doubt they're working for the Muslim Brotherhood, either. I don't find it surprising that some people strongly support the current government, and consider the protesters to be traitors. It wouldn't take more than a relatively few people feeling that way to create some of the scenes we've seen.

And there seems to be no doubt at all that foreign and domestic journalists are being detained and turned over to the Mukhabarat (Egyptian secret police). The Mukhabarat are also responsible for some of the violence and looting in an attempt to discredit the protesters, according to multiple sources. Again, orders for that sort of thing wouldn't necessarily be coming down from above; local commanders might be the instigators.

CAIRO - Human Rights Watch confirmed several cases of undercover police loyal to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's regime committing acts of violence and looting in an attempt to stoke fear of instability as demonstrations grew stronger Tuesday against the autocratic leader.

Peter Bouckaert, the emergency director at Human Rights Watch, said hospitals confirmed that they received several wounded looters [who had been shot by the army and were] carrying police identification cards. They also found several cases of looters and vandals in Cairo and Alexandria with police identification cards. He added that it was "unexplainable" that thousands of prisoners escaped from prisons over the weekend.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/01/AR2011020100903.html

 

there must be quite a number of people who tied their wagons to mubarak and will want to protect their positions and may be acting solo

 

Also, Bos, et.al., be careful painting Egypt as seen through Vulkyn's eyes only. To wit, imagine if one's impression of the States was formed from meeting one person, and that person could be somewhere on the spectrum from the far left, say... Parr, through Wadd (flitting with whatever breeze might be blowing today), Troy, you, Cat, all the way to Hoyt, then me on the far right. Throw "crazy", "rabid" and "hungry" into the mix somewhere (There are William Ayers' and Timothy Mcveighs in Egypt, too) and it gets very, very complicated. What could you possibly deduce from only one interview? At best, I think we can take heart in knowing that there are, at least, some like we know Vulkyn to be.
On the anniversary of Ronald Reagan's birthday, it reminds that any position we should take as a country should be formed only after asking "What would Reagan do?", or at least Nixon or maybe Clinton, if you need a left example. We've been a little lacking in the foreign policy department as of late, methinks, and the world is being reformed, for good or bad.
I will add, about the journalists. First, hotshots, keep your opinions out of it - none of you are the next Walter Kronkite. Second, a speculation: Journalists being attacked and threatened with beheading and such are not being attacked by Ghandis, right? Not even by people like Vulkyn or a "freedom" protester or similar. If very many involved in the protest were the good people we would like them to be, they would be thrilled to have the word get out AND they would protect the journalists. It seems to me that there must be many a nasty sort involved in the protests.
This is important to us and not purely academic, why? Something like eighty million people live there. We cannot know what they think until free elections have been held and things return to a semblance of normalcy. Good luck, Vulkyn.

 

Ive often been concerned that my world views are overly tainted by the gubment media and its clear to me that every aspect of local media is controlled in such a way as to portray a scene which I am meant to see, rather than one that is unbiased and complete in its intricacies. So I am compelled to believe Vulkyn's views as likely more accurate than the biased interpretation of events I see on the media here.

Vulkyn
is there any chance you can link us to some form of free Egyptian radio or media so that we might be able to read the views of others from your country. I find myself fascinated by your news of cooperation among the religions and am very interested in learning more of your country. I am skeptical of the view of western media as to the strife and violence and also of the animosity towards western world. Something tells me that your people as well as ours would just assume live in peace. Is there some kind of Egyptian social network that I might be welcome to join even as an outsider.

I believe Mark has a point in that the views of one man alone may not be representative of the country as a whole and so I'd love to find some link to a populous media of Egyptian origin. Any suggestions would be welcome, if possible to some site or media which is of free access to all Egyptians and not simply those pro or con to the present regime.

and thanks for all the info
I find it enlightening in the extreme as western media clearly seems to have an agenda which is not displaying the views you so eloquently express

best wishes and stay safe
B

 

Thanks Bosten very kind of you
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Very valid points, yes i deliberately left out the negatives because the media has done a good job in painting that picture, even our local Egyptian media failed to be neutral and did not even start the coverage of the events till late friday, 4th day into the crisis.
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Troy, valid point at this point every one is scrambling to either maintain their power or start getting their hands in politics. In either case i myself still have not found any party / political figure that would represent me or my ideas. The very biased media's both foreign and local are exactly like 2 lawyer in a law suit, each painting the picture to aid his view leading you to try and balance both and reach a conclusion.
Boston facebook helped through utube links and pictures i am sure there is some media that had a neutrail coverage but we spent 12-14 hours at night out in the street so it was mostly my mobile camera and my own experience and of my friends ....
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The violence that happened the past 2 weeks left me in tears in many occasions, the pictures and media on the net and on the TV shows the very ugly side of the events.
But i have seen so much more positive through my eyes that i wanted to pass on.
On the first day of the events all the men took to the streets, we had a militia up and running in 1 hour. Shifts, time, number of people on each gate to our compound.

What was amazing in the crisis is that i met an American who was living with us and there he was with Egyptians at the gate to protect his home.
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These past days showed us how much love and hate there is in the world. I moved to my current home 4 years ago and this was the first time i met some of my neighbors. It showed a social gap that for some reason did not exist when i was growing up. We had many Christian neighbors and friends, maybe because i got to spend so much time in their house and they did the same i am much luckier than the current younger generation who relay on rumors or tale tales and i got to see things differently from my eyes ....
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I have attached some pics, the police man is crying because when they withdraw a huge bottled up rage towards police swept egypt. They where hated but what they did in the protests is beyond words .... Yet several days in the pro peaceful protests one is being carried on the shoulder of Egyptians ... cant say enough about these pictures but it does show that Humans are capable of extreme acts of violence and hate but are also capable of kindness and forgiving ... what can i say i love my country and i am who i am because i was brought up here ...

 

Here are some more pictures of the damage to some of the building because of the looters ....

Boston here is one of the less biased news paper (i think .....)
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en

 

Boston this was a picture i was looking for i saw it before but had a hard time finding it ....

A picture that says a thousand words

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/02/07/2011-02-07_muslims_turn_out_in_mass.html

BTW the second picture is not of the current turmoil in egypt, here is the link
http://www.globalwhisperer.com/2011...to-coptic-christmas-serving-as-human-shields/

 

This is so true. In fact, I am still having hard time to understand the reason behind this protest, because Mubarak has never been depicted as some ruthless dictator in the part of the world where I live. Never till now, when things are being depicted almost like a revolution against the despotism.

So, when have I been told the false truth about Egypt, all these years before the current turmoil, or now?

As has been happening for the last 70-80 years, and for each and every political and military issue, I believe that media are once again being used as public-opinion forming tool, rather than a fair and honest information source.

Cheers, and take care.

 

The problem was imo not mubark but the underlying corrupt government and politicians. Political oppression, the emergency law, the stagnating regime, slow reform, corrupt police, the lack of clear internal affairs audits etc.. where the main cause.

He is old and has lost touch maybe 7-10 years ago, the main players where the NDP (national democratic party which was one of the first building to get burned down) and the ministers who had the most gains (himself and his children to of course...). Then again being corrupt or allowing corruption either willingly or not will still lead to the same result ....

 

Vulkyn, do you mind if I cross post your pics to another forum?

 

Not at all ... the pics posted are a collection of photos i took, friends and medias....

 

Here is another picture i found ...

 

Some more pics ...

 

A few more pics ...

 

Vulkyn,

Thank you very much for this post, it helps clearing some of common prejudices and misconceptions we (the westerners) have towards your religion and culture. We are all more or less being biased on a daily base by the various-interest-groups-controlled information that is given to us through media.

Your explanation of the word "jihad" is the first of that kind I have heard, and it makes me think about why is it so (apart my own ignorance, of course). Why is the word "jihad" being systematically attached only to the images of violence, beheadings, suicide bombers and airplane kidnappers, when there exist a much more deeper and humane meaning of the word.

As a human being with no religious preferences (God is one, religions are just imperfect depictions of him created by humans) I can fully understand the term "jihad" as explained by you, because we all are experiencing it in our own lives on a daily basis. I actually find it extremely hard to understand the other, violent, meaning of the word. Yet, only the latter one is being shown to us in tv, newspapers etc. We should all stop and think about why is it so.

And i fully endorse the bolded part of the citation.