Turmoil in Egypt

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hoytedow said:
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/communist_mortality.html

"Between 1934 and 1987, an estimated 12,000 South African blacks lost their lives at the hands of the South African government. Black and white liberals have roundly condemned South Africa. But there's silence and even praise for murdering governments to the north. Between 1966 and 1979, Nigeria murdered over 400,000 of its own citizens; between 1975 and 1987, Mozambique murdered 200,000; between 1960 and 1987, Uganda murdered 579,000; between 1956 and 1987, the Sudan murdered over a million. Since 1960, over 2.2 million black Africans have been murdered by their own governments. But for America's black and white liberals, it's only the 12,000 blacks murdered by South African whites that count."
Walter Williams
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Your quote is completely irrelevant to the subject. None of the deaths it talks about in Africa were carried out in support of 'atheistic creeds.' As a matter of fact, I notice the deaths in Rwanda (where Tutsi and Hutu took turns massacring each other, and up to a million people died) aren't even mentioned. Could that be because both ethnic groups are primarily Christians? :)

A little perspective: I've attached a list of some of the more infamous body counts in history, including the communist ones. As a percentage of the world population at the time, many of those listed were worse than anything the communists ever did. And it's far from a comprehensive list.

http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm

How many millions of people died during the European wars of religion from about 1524 to 1648, while Protestant and Catholic Christians were having at each other? Going back a few centuries, how many Christians and Muslims died during the Crusades? As a matter of fact, how many Muslims have died just in internecine violence between Shi'a and Sunni Muslims, down through the centuries?

Of course, we don't want to forget the Albigensian Crusades against Cathar heretics back in the 12th century-- where it's estimated a quarter of the population of France was slaughtered. How many of the communist regimes listed in your link managed to kill off a quarter of their citizens?

But I will say this: I have to admire that little trick where your author does a sweet trombone slide, from communists through socialists to American liberals -- thereby pegging people like me as evil accomplices of Stalin and Mao....

It takes more stones than sense to claim that I (and people like me) only care about blacks who were killed by whites, and don't give a hoot if blacks kill whites or blacks kill other blacks. What kind of sense does that make? If you want to know what I care about, maybe you should ask me -- instead of taking the word of some agitprop wienie who claims to be reading my mind.

And Viking North: don't confuse the the Incas with the Aztecs.:)

The Aztecs of Mexico -- [not the Incas of Peru -- were the ones seriously into sacrificing people to their gods, then roasting and eating their arms and legs. Their victims were generally either prisoners of war, or taken as tribute from conquered lands. That's one of the reasons Cortez had a hundred thousand Indian allies with him, when he besieged Mexico City....
 

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Ya there was a blunder, know the difference but in typing my dyslexia kicked in--West coast -Incas, East coast/quazi central --Aztecs with their natural glass knives which surgeons tested to be sharper than modern surgical scalpels. Thank you sir for that correction-- have edited to reflect such.:)-- Geo.

P.S. no one will win this debate as those who believe have seen the light and those that don't have also seen the light -- the important thing is we respect each others right to walk down the our own paths of darkness lit by our own personal beliefs
 
Lots of people in power have committed much atrocity.

Some have claimed a religious motive and some have not.

It is also obvious that many in power claimed some religious ground when all knew that the claim was just a farce.

Who did how much bad in the past does not have much bearing on the topic of this thread. Claims to a religious mandate accompanied by hateful actions ring pretty hollow to me.

If someone wants to fuss about who is to blame for all that is wrong in the world, it would be great if you would just start a new thread (if it does not get moderated out of existence) or go somewhere else to whine.

If you want to discusses current happenings in Egypt or interact with at least one directly affected boater, please post away.
 
hoytedow said:
Troy, your list omits the murders by communists in Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela, Colombia, Nicaragua, Burma, Cambodia (Remember "The Killing Fields"?) and the list goes on and on.

The Killing Fields: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Killing_Fields_(film)
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The list was a complilation of the biggest body counts in history, not a comprehensive one of every person ever killed by communists -- or non-communists. My point was that the claim about "atheistic creeds" being the worst murderers in history is a meaningless, absurd talking point to begin with, and the arithmetic simply doesn't add up.

I'm done now;; I'll either post on topic or stay quiet.:)

Regarding the Muslim Brotherhood: its a movement, not a monolithic political party -- although many political parties profess to adhere to it. There's a wide range of beliefs and objectives across those parties, and their strength in the elections may not be the total disaster it's being portrayed as in this country. Let's see what happens when a government is formed.
 
QUOTE=

P.S. no one will win this debate as those who believe have seen the light and those that don't have also seen the light -- the important thing is we respect each others right to walk down the our own paths of darkness lit by our own personal beliefs /QUOTE

That would be acceptable, unfortunately we are a long way off that.

As I have written before,-- I as an atheist is first to be thrown down the aircraft steps as vermin.

I hope the internet speeds up Muslims advance into the civilized world after all the British were ducking witches and burning certain heretics alive just 300 years ago.
 
Well when you hit the tarmack move aside as an agnostic they'll throw me out next. :D. I've done a sort of non scientific study here in my area of Eastern Canada and by the third generation close to 100% of all immigrents have become so westernized their old customs and strict religious habits have pretty well disappeared. The old Christian religions here, Roman Catholic and Church of England have lost easily 75% of their practising followers or have moderated so much they are just not that active anymore. I notice it in the Roman Catholic faith more than any. I would suspect as isolated pockets of most faiths emerge into the modern world moderation follows very shortly thereafter regardless of the country. Hopefully the moderates in Egypt buy enough time for that to happen there, I sure hope so as religion in government is such a disruption of freedom and progress and a lot of good people have invested a huge chunk of their lives toward the modernization of that country. Their once booming tourist trade must be taking one hell of a beating.
 
viking north said:
Well when you hit the tarmack move aside as an agnostic they'll throw me out next. :D..
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I think at that point just about every one on the plane will have miraculously turned into a Muslim and quite wisely so. I dont blame them as the Islamic tourists here turn into Christians for a week to sample the wares of Thai hospitality without fear of insulting there religion.

Its just too stupid for words.

People are basically weak and need assurance like as a child. For an atheist we have no assurance or any where to go when we die , we have but the knowledge of truth and to face death as the place we came from before we were alive, that is nothing. Perhaps a bit too difficult to handle for a lot of people and religion helps this but the truth is but death is peace, it is where you came from before you were born.

Sorry.
 
Leo Lazauskas said:
How can you hate it when it provides a good brawl every Christmas in Bethlehem?
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I havnt looked at the link but I saw it on BBC.

Does not matter what the religion is --it always causes a brawl.

Its beyond me why other people don't see it for what it is.

Its no different to the loyal subjects of North Korea.

Its a religion of sorts but not in the biblical sense. Poor wretched souls having to live their entire lives to another mans believes.

How many people have died in the name of God this Christmas.

There was a Church blown up my Muslims on Chirstmas day and that did what, cured the world did it?

Show me a dumb ignorant person and ille show you a religious driven dysfunctional misfit and a general pain in the arse. Like a hemoroid --you can live with it but--its always there that nagging pain in the butt:)

Was that the sort of thing you were looking for leo?
 
Frosty said:
Show me a dumb ignorant person and ille show you a religious driven dysfunctional misfit and a general pain in the arse. Like a hemoroid --you can live with it but--its always there that nagging pain in the butt:)

Was that the sort of thing you were looking for leo?
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I thought the video might give you a chuckle.

The rest of your post is not news to me.
I was taught by weirdos in a Jesuit high school before they threw me out.
 
Ok i have not check the thread in some time and it seems its headed in a direction that was not my intention in starting this thread.

I will just say a little comment before moving on, i have over the years done a lot of research in religion as it has always intrigued me and i reached a conclusion that has worked well for me and is my general direction in life.
If religion is NOT helping you become a more peaceful, civilized, understanding and compassionate then there is something wrong with the equation, you should choose the religion that helps you achieve that. I honestly do not want to base my judgment on what some one did 300 years ago in what he thinks was right, i am more than capable of reaching my own conclusions through reading, research and living experience.

Every one can do something stupid and claim that he is following a certain path, but i have not seen a religion out there that promotes violence (a fact that is unfortunately lost in translation from original language of the religion, that be islam or Christianity).

I am not aiming to start a debate but this is the conclusion i have reached myself. I think religion has helped me set standards for becoming a better person, the ability for me to reach those standards is entirely my own doing and needs me to work hard and my failure or success in that regard is entirely my responsibility.
 
Vulkyn said:
Every one can do something stupid and claim that he is following a certain path, but i have not seen a religion out there that promotes violence (a fact that is unfortunately lost in translation from original language of the religion, that be islam or Christianity).
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I disagree that religions do not advocate violence.
For me, violence includes men trying to exercise power and control over
women, and most of the world's religions attempt to do that.

I think that you are also choosing to ignore the long history of violent
religions. Jihadists spreading Islam through the sword and killing infidels, and
Crusaders slaughtering non-Christians. Thugees, Christian Inquisitors, and
Aztecs all used extreme violence. There are many, many more examples.

However, back on topic...
It's nice to see that the Egyptian military are trying to get closer to the
21st century by no longer inspecting Egyptian women to see
if they are virgins.

Who agreed to give that power to those repulsive men in your country?
The small number of silent atheists, or insane believers?
 
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Leo again its the way people choose to interprut religion, it is sad really because if when u read more about it you will discover its actually the opposite, woman rights are sacred. If a person chooses to ignore that and tries to exercise power or control over women he is choosing to go against his religion.
The violence was in the name of religion not because of religion major difference. I am not choosing to ignore anything but i am choosing to base my own decisions, thoughts and behavior on what I read not on what others did.

The Egyptian Army have the finesse and diplomacy of a crazy mass murderer with an axe, it is not their job and in the lack of police and a formal government its easy to "slip" into any stupid decision with out fearing consequences.

Unfortunately years of oppression, illiteracy and a major lack of reading and knowledge means easy manipulation.
Egypt is a huge country and no matter the % of educated people we will be driven by the larger % of uneducated.
Its a matter of numbers and volume now ... They uneducated have more voting power ....
 
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