Turmoil in Egypt

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Vulkyn, Feb 5, 2011.

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  1. ancient kayaker
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Just a minor correction: the ten commandments is Mosaic law, Christians have just 2, love God and love your neighbour. Much simpler, and much more difficult.

    I cannot speak for Muslims, but the word jihad - used in the sense of a holy war - has been heard a lot over the last few decades. It does indeed mean struggle but there are many other types of struggle - the struggle for survival, equality, recognition, justice and freedom to name a few.

    Unfortunately it has been adopted by extremists who seem to shout “jihad” at the drop of a hat. In the Muslim world it is likely to end up debasing the word’s significance - “oh here we go again” and elsewhere it merely confirms what the media are always trying to persuade us about Muslim instability. Jihadists had respect back when Afghans were struggling to free themselves from the Soviets, now the most they can inspire is fear.

    Of the many Muslims I have met and worked with I have only known one I did not respect and like, that is about the average ratio for all the people I have met.

    Are the events in Egypt a struggle for democracy? I am not sure. Basically they wish to rid themselves of a leader who has become - perhaps always was - unpopular. That’s not quite the same thing.

    Theoretically Egypt already has a form of democracy. At least there are, I understand, some kind of elections, but they sound about as meaningful as the ones reportedly held in the Soviet Union decades ago.

    The adoption from a standing start, of the full democratic package with its political parties, campaigns, public discussions, policies and elections, its checks and balances, limitations to power and so forth is a long, difficult and potentially dangerous road. A democratic government requires its populace’s full confidence at all times and is beset by an opposition devoted to destroying that same confidence. Such a government must be willing from time-to-time to focus their full attention on today’s media “issue” - no matter how unimportant or undeserving, if it wishes to retain power for long. This tends to attract ridicule. Those who wish to find a quicker, more direct way to achieve their aims can easily exploit that weakness In a young democracy. Democracy itself has been used as a stepping stone to absolute power in more than one mature European states within my lifetime.
     
  2. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Jihad is a term that means to overcome tough obstacles. The major jihad in Islam is to fight yourself and overcome all the treats that make us bad individuals, like greed, hunger for power, bad manners, anger managment etc...
    The Minor Jihad is in Islam is the fight for freedom, peace and democracy.

    The emphasis on yourself is much more important and much tougher to rid yourself of bad traits / habits.
    It is a much harder feet than to simply go to war or even fight for a good cause. Becoming a better person is an ongoing struggle that starts when you start to grow up till you the day you die and this is what makes us better people not carrying weapons ...

    Unfortunately many Muslims either dont comprehend the full aspect of islam or choose to word out parts and leave the rest to for their own gains.

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    The ongoing struggle in my view is basically the desire to change many aspect of our existence, the ability to express our views freely, the ability to iron out corruption, the possibility to dictate the direction the country is moving towards rather than being dictated where we should go.
    -------------

    In my view politics is like pure water, no matter how fresh if left stagnating for too long will eventually spoil, change is the only constant in life fighting it is asking for trouble ...
     
  3. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    this is really incredible stuff
    thanks so much for posting
    best of luck and stay safe
    cheers
    B
     
  4. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    He already said that there is a vacuum. - Just not the extremists, not the Muslim Brotherhood. If we have them take power in Egypt, there will a war like the world does not want to see. Immediately, they would likely close the gas pipeline to Israel and possibly the Canal, where something like seven percent of the world's transported goods traverse (The straw that breaks the camel's back for the economies of the US and Europe?). Another thing that would happen is Saudi Arabia would likely fall to them as well as the drive to Caliphate strengthens, and OPEC will cease to exist - CHEAP OIL!.. for a while.
    Yes, "struggle" - That is the interpretation progressives like to give. "Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion." That's from 'Umdat al-Salik (o9.0), a legal manual endorsed by the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, Al-Azhar University in Cairo.
    What trash have you been reading that seriously puts Ghandi in the same catagory as Jihadists?
    Also, we have them here (Brotherhood) and the goal is world domination and eventual death to infidels. Besides progressives, radical Muslims are the biggest threat to peace today.
     
  5. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    Radicals in general are the biggest threat any where this applies to any religion / faith or ideology the inability to compromise, understand and accept others is a destructive force ...

    The word Jihad can not be taken from a single phrase just like using the world struggle it can have a lot more context then the exact phrase.

    What Ghandi did could be described as Jihad (which is an arabic term really) or in other words he choose to fight with peace, he controlled his anger, his violence his need for revenge to further move his cause.

    The word Jihad as can be used out context very easily and as such is generally perceived -vely ...
     
  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Do you think there is a chance that a freely elected government might come out of this and if so what do you think its chances are of it being nonsecular. IE are your feelings about say the Muslim Brotherhood widespread or are you in the minority opinion. I've been following the news here but this seems far more accurate to hear directly from someone who is actually there.

    how are food stuffs holding up, is the military bringing in food and water to the markets, or is basic distribution still functioning
     
  7. Vulkyn
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    Vulkyn Senior Member

    The current conspiracy theory is that the brotherhood had a direct hand in the turmoil, they where responsible for the police stations being burnt and a lot of the violence the other side is the ongoing power struggle between the old regime politicians and the new wave of change and reform.

    But the overall picture is that the Muslim brother hood should gain a voice in politics since they do represent a portion but i do belief from my view and almost every one i know is that they should never gain power. So yes the general widespread notion is skepticism towards them and uncertainty, not only Christians but most Muslims feel the same way.
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    i dont think it would be a freely elected government but it would be free'er so to speak than the existing one and more lenient to other political views (Well i pray anyways)

    ---------
    Food is starting to go back to normal, last week was very tough i mean 3 hrs to get bread tough with nothing in supermarkets. Egypt is not used to such events so overreaction usually leads to major demand + low supply = problems.

    Fuel is still a problem almost 60-70% of fuel stations are non operational (the lack of security means fuel trucks are a major hazard to move freely i guess)
     
  8. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    It sounds to me like you're equating the Muslim Brotherhood with organizations like Al Queda. There are a lot of differences. To begin with, it isn't a small group of terrorists and radicals; it's the oldest and largest political group in the Muslim world. And it's hardly a monolithic, united organization with everyone marching to the same drummer. Its members definitely don't unanimously support terrorism and violence -- although some of the groups that have come out of it, or are associated with it, do have a violent agenda.

    As a matter of fact, some 20% of Egypt's Parliament can be described as Muslim Brotherhood, although since MB is illegal they call themselves Independents. Instead of trying to destabilize the government, they have a track record of taking their duties very seriously, and trying to revive Parliament as a viable institution instead of a rubber-stamp congress.

    I'd also like to point out that in some other Muslim countries, the Muslim Brotherhood is a legal and active political party. Lumping them in with Osama Bin Laden and his bunch, and treating them accordingly, would be a grave error springing from hysteria.

    I think I'll take Vulkyn's word for it that Jihad has mulitiple meanings and connotations, that go far beyond "blow up the infidels and go to Paradise." I suspect he's more familiar with the subject than either you or I....
     
  9. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    From what I understand, the struggle has no connection with religion...The issue is ever rising commodity prices...food , energy.. a stagnate economy , poor employment prospects for the young and a political class who have built a system that is not able to respond .

    There seems to be no easy way to address these problems which are sure to become more acute in future.

    Egypt shares these problems with many middle income countries.
     
  10. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    damn, we oughta be in the streets
     
  11. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yupp.... take to the streets.....and insist that benevolent American policy be directed at taming the social stress that is building up across the boarder in Mexico by the drastic decrease in repatriated funds and high commodity prices. .


    Imagine how much money it will cost the American taxpayer if Mexico goes pear shaped and erupts ...the Holy Mackeral...mother of all US deficits.

    Very good time for a wise international statesman to come forward.
     
  12. anthony goodson
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    anthony goodson Senior Member

    Stop worrying about Mexico Michael "first cast out the beam from thine own eye " ,your previous postings are accurately describing your own country .and the EU don't have the money to bail you out ,so what then ? I am assuming you are a native of Spain . Vulkyn best wishes stay safe.
     
  13. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    If we take to the streets, Wad, would you mind if I bean you with a hefty rock?
    I watched some interviews with some young Egyptians and they seemed sincere and generally amiable - in short, much like our friend Vulkyn. Bear in mind that the roll-over-and-pee government we have now in the states is not likely to be here much longer and though people routinely blame the US for Egypt's problems with Mubarak, he has been getting pressure for decades from our State Department and Whitehouse to lighten up. Yes, we supplied his military because it is in our interest to keep parity and stabilty in the Mid East and he was one that was not a radical. Egypt has a choice now if it wants to continue on its trend of coordination with the West and be more like the West, or cooperate more with Iran and model itself after Iran. There will always be gas, minerals, and I don't know what else as components of the economy there. Not much US aid going to places like Iran, not many tourists visiting there. When the radicals executed the 50some (Mostly French?) tourists there ten or fiften years ago, what did that do for Egypt?
    All this adds up to it being warm and fuzzy to think about democracy and reform but the next regime had damn well better be non-radical and strong. Kinda like Hozni Mubarak. Okay, so you don't like him - what is going to fill the void? I'll tell you, if not careful, IRAN will fill the void, like in Iraq. In short, how Christians are still trying to live down the agressions of the Catholics centuries ago and the likes of Jim Jones and other kooks, like Vulkyn said, radicals don't do anybody any good. I wouldn't let them (Muslim Brotherhood) NEAR the government.
     
  14. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Wow, all I can say is a big thank you to Vulkyn for posting all of this here. It's a pleasure to learn about everything in Egypt without hearing about it through the news here in the States.
     

  15. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Vulkyn
    I posted the picture of the Islamic prayers being protected by peoples of other faiths to my friends on FB and its gotten quite a reaction. Unfortunately people here are led by media reports and govt PR efforts to believe that there is nothing but strife and violence between people of differing faiths in the Middle East and northern Africa areas. I myself thought this pretty unlikely and am pleasantly surprised at your pictures and the news you provide. If you have any additional shots of multi faith efforts I'd love to continue posting them. This particular twist on events there is something that really should be noted by western news sources but from what I've read ( and I've been looking every day for the latest ) its being completely ignored in our local media.

    I have a number of friends who I directed to this thread so they might read your comments concerning the pictures and I think its things like this were there is no media play on the story that really relays the true meaning to the events. Best of luck and if you can more pictures please. I think one friend is even posting them on the Denver university foriegn studies board. Your information is going far and wide.

    Thanks
    B
     
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