Tube Shaft inspection and leak repair

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by forever young, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Once you have the concrete out ille take a bet you don't replace it.

    A horrible job.

    The drop was the front only and a lot of weight was used to rip the deck off. If it was mud as is normal round here.
     
  2. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "one of the keel show through bolts which is really threaded 3/8 SS rod with bolts on both ends is leaking."

    SS does not belong under water , replace any with bronze of a marine grade.
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Stainless steel underwater is certainly acceptable and quite common. Virtually every production boat with external ballast has stainless bolts hold it on. A huge percentage of shafts, struts and wheels are also stainless. Yep, there are better materials, bronze being one of them, but stainless has easily stood the test of time, for many decades.
     
  4. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    Had a discussion with carrier today. Interesting, they tell me doesn't matter if there was no leaking tube the day before the boat was dropped and leaking the day it returned to the water after the first repairs!!! Carrier also said, " we don't care if the independent service people or firms who had been doing work on the boat provide you with signed statements that support your claims that the boat was dry". They say and I quote "the burden of proof is mine to prove that this leak is a direct result of the fall, they think that their surveyor will be able to tell if a shaft tube crack is new or old? I've spoken to a few surveyors already, none of them feel it's realistic to figure this out, all feel the tube is already 30 years old and is gonna be rusty and look like crap anyway, plus getting it out will make a further mess of it.. may have even been repaired and the fall may have caused the repair to fail again.. Which BTW, the carrier said, Oh, if it's an old repaired area that failed that won't be covered either... I'm thinking about removing the concrete too, the problem is that some of it is under the teak flooring, which means the floor may have to be removed. I am concerned about just pulling the tube out ( if it even will come out ) what if the concrete has been further compromised, if may just cause a new tube to fail again? I do really appreciate all the help from my fellow boat designers!! Where do I buy or rent the tools you mentioned in your post PAR
    Thanks Steve
     
  5. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    Do any of you fellows know of a south Florida marine engineer or designer who I could use
    to provide technical findings in a simple report to support my claims since common sense isn't good enough for them... I've not found a survoyer with any engineering experience.
     
  6. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    Here is a photo of the flange at the transmission
     

    Attached Files:

  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    What the insurance company is doing is typical and the usual "business decision" they make. In a nut shell, they know that this problem is not likely to be valuable enough to warrant attorney fees, courts costs and a protracted legal battle, so they are betting that you'll give up. This is a common ploy and it usually works for them. It's very probable that 95% of these types of cases, don't have a settlement or court date. This is classic "show me what you got" mentality and it works the vast majority of the time. This is what happens when companies answer to boards of directors and share holders, rather than their clients, customers or policy holders. The only concern they have is the return on the share holder's investments, everything else is fodder.

    This is why I mentioned an attorney early on. Usually a few phone calls from a well versed lawyer, can get them to come to the table with an offer. This is the company's second line of defense, to make a token offer in hopes it will make the issue go away. Without some investment on your part, by way of a clever attorney and cooperative surveyor, you'll never get them to the table. This is the "show me what you got" part I mentioned. You have to prove to them, it's worth making an offer rather than a court appearance.

    Basically, you have them over a barrel, but they'll never admit this to you, without the investment on your part. This investment is recoverable too, as part of a settlement or court award. You see, they know they have pockets deep enough to absorb this for as long as necessary, at least long enough to make you lose interest, which is their hope.

    In the end you have to decide if the costs and potential recovery of them, is worth the headache. They're betting on two things: first is that it's not a big enough issue to take to court and second that you'll lose interest pursuing them. It costs them nothing to blow you off and use stall tactics. You have to decide if the problems encountered are sufficiently troublesome enough to warrant continued pursuit.

    Right now you don't even know what is wrong, so you have some work and investment to preform, regardless of the avenue you head down.

    The tools I've mentioned are all available in any big box store.
     
  8. Chuck Losness
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    Chuck Losness Senior Member

    I have stayed out of this issue but Par is right. The insurance company will not pay you a dime at this point. Why because you are not their insured. The boat yard is. Until you take action against the boat yard, the insurance company doesn't have to do a thing. Go find yourself a good attorney and quit talking to the boat yard's insurer.
     
  9. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Correct I agree too but he needs to expose the problem he wants fixing,--in detail.

    He cant just say fix my boat, they will say its fixed.

    Some degree of loss adjustment needs considering by the owner.


    Can he walk away from it. Has he the time to work the yard and their insurer. Can he auction or sell as is. Is some financial loss or correction acceptable.

    In other words what does this boat mean to him because this will take a long time. Other maintenance issues will then arrise by standing in the yard so long and indeed the cost of standing in the yard if you fail to win the case.

    Getting on with it and fix it yourself has to be seriously considered.

    Once that concrete is out the problem will be visible and I think repairable.

    It may then be that the problem WAS the fitting of the bearing by the yard. If you can prove this or make a good case for it the yard will not go to court but repair it.

    Im sure they want to fix this as much as he does.

    A little bit more cap in hand approach works well in these circumstances --if it does'nt then get the gloves off. It certainly can not work the other way round.
     
  10. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    I return to stuart tomorrow and first plan is to remove shaft and try and look into the tube with light? Does anyone make a camera or something to get light and some photos of the tube. I think it's about 6-9 ft. also going to get a indie surveyor to provide a report. I know the best repair is to open the sole
    remove concrete and then replace tube and ballaet with lead. Any ideas what the best price on lead is and where to buy?
     
  11. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Don't worry about ballast that can be done anytime and I doubt you will see anything with a light.
     
  12. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    So a boroscope will not provide any value to get a look inside? I was thinging it world be good to know if the tube is already loaded with corrosion, which will provide the carrier with more reason to deny the claim.
     
  13. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    It needs removing either if you find something or not,-- there is little else to cause a leak of that size that you would not be able to see .

    Remove concrete and tube. Then maybe your boroscope.

    Removing a cutlass can mean some heavy hammering and chiseling if they did not have specialist equipment that not many have. If they did damage you would see something behind the cutlass but this would mean removal of the bearing and its probable destruction.


    A stern tube is quite sturdy depending on its material it can corrode and collapse especially with heavy handed removal of C bearing.

    Remove bearing and concrete --then bring in your surveyor or he will have nothing to look at.
     
  14. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    You know it could be leaking through the rudder gland and running down through the cement.

    I think you know what to do.
     

  15. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    CDK retired engineer

    There are inexpensive fiber optics on the Japanese market, both with direct view and cameras. I bought an endoscope through Ebay a couple of years ago for approx. $100, postage included.
     
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