Tube Shaft inspection and leak repair

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by forever young, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Do you have a smiley with its eyes bulging out of its sockets -- I think I need one just about here.
     
  2. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 1,862
    Likes: 86, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1146
    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Thanks Frosty- as a result of your post I re read mine and realized there's nothing to smile about as this is a sad situation -- but alas there is no sad face ---so we need two new faces.
    A older cousin of mine had his wooden classic sailing yacht (45ft.) dropped on the hard and drove the keel partially up thru the bottom. Some untold thousands of dollars later she was put back into the water but only lasted a couple of years before she started leaking and he finally gave up and scrapped her. It's a hard call when this sort of damage occurs. So a sad face is definately required.
     
  3. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 20
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    Hauled yesterday. removed the prop and cutlass bearing flange. Took clay and sealed the tube. Took the small 3/8 hose off of the engine which attaches to the new dripless.
    We took food coloring mixed with a gallon of water. We attached 4 ft of hose to the
    3/8 hose to create some back pressure. We taped a small funnel to the hose held it 5ft
    above the engine and filled with the colored water to see if onece the tube was full the colored water in this tube would hold position, what we learned is with no water leaking out around the tube at the prop, the water level was dropping. So we are assuming the tube has a leak somewhere. We also noticed the one of the keel show through bolts which is really threaded 3/8 SS rod with bolts on both ends is leaking.. Any one have any thoughts? Why a surveyor again? Should I wait to see if the insurance of the yard is going to step up to the plate, since the boat was dry prior to the drop? Or do I assume they will try and screw me and call the lawyer now? Some more photos tomorrow
     
  4. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,166
    Likes: 49, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    As I have said before, never trust anyone's works on your boat, always check and verify. Also be at the yard when they move or haul boat. Otherwise you may never know what happen.
     
  5. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 1,862
    Likes: 86, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1146
    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    Excellent idea with the coloured ( Can. spelling :) ) water. I would engage the services of an independant surveyer/architect, more or less as professional input/ammunition to be taken seriously by the yard guys. He could also recommend a course of corrective action to be taken. The one problem with engaging lawyers is the high cost and time delays for the process to finalize. Might be a good idea to hold off on them as a last resort. Be interesting to see the photos and possibly a side shot or simple hand drawing of the boat showing where these leaking bolts are located. The problem with this type of impact is the unseen damage. The hull structure should normally be able to take it, I.E. dropping off a big sea, however in your case she hit bottom and that impact does shake up the entire vessel far beyond what she was designed for. I'm no expert here but i visualize the stresses somewhat akin to using ones foot to break a piece of wood whose end is supported upon a rock. So yes I can see to put it mildly disturbance of the keel bolts. Anyhow as I said i'm not a pro in the engineering dept. just a builder so rely on your on sight surveyer for the details. -- Geo.
     
  6. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 20
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    Yes, I was at the yard when the bow slid out of the forward sling and she fell
    10ft back down into the water and bottomed out in 5ft of water.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 467, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Do you still have your haul out paper work? If so, you might want to look it over, as most have a "non-responsibility" clause. Of course, you can use a lawyer to convince them a long, protracted battle will be more costly, then just making good by you. Essentially, they have a business decision to make: which is more cost effective - battle you and take a reputation beating, plus court and attorney fees or just find a settlement with you. Any time a boat gets dropped, they know what's next, so again, call a lawyer and have the survey done, by a well documented, insurance friendly surveyor.
     
  8. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 20
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    You mis understand I think, the yard's carrier paid me to have the damage to the bow and forward deck repaired. This leak in the tube shaft has not been discovered a few days after the repairs to bow got completed and she was launched. So, these are additional damages that didn't show up before. Shaft tube is encased in concrete son the shift and impact of the 50,000 lbs hitting the bottom has created this new problem, sice the vessel was dry as a bone prior to the all.
     
  9. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 467, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You need to document this new damage, which should have been preformed previously by a surveyor, so you'll need a surveyor to look her over again. It's likely the the concrete casting moved or tweaked something and I'll bet it has to come out. I'll also bet getting them to pay for this new damage, will be difficult to prove. Your boat doesn't need, nor is it especially desirable to have this casting, so . . .

    Trimming ballast can be arranged, typically with little lead pigs or bricks. Most of my ballasted designs, have a generic trimming ballast brick sheet, sent along with them. It's a 2"x3" by 6" long brick of lead that weighs about 14 pounds. They're designed to stack neatly, while letting water pass through them in a bilge. They're easy enough to cast and it doesn't take many to add up to a considerable amount of weight. They take up 80% less space than the concrete and best of all, you can move them if trim issues need to be addressed (different engine, new tanks, etc.) or to get at a remote part for repair or replacement.
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    If its leaking under the concrete --get it out -- concrete is not good and its covering the most likely place for leaks.
     
  11. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 20
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    I have a surveyor coming over this morning, just to get some photos of the area, concrete, sole to bilkhead seams ( where you see movement even in the salon ) Then the area just above the concretet were the red die I put in the sealed tube is seeping up out of the concrete.
     
  12. forever young
    Joined: Jul 2012
    Posts: 20
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Stuart Florida

    forever young Junior Member

    I would like to add that there are signs from the damage of the impact when my boat bottomed out in 5ft of water after the sling let go. You see from 1/32 -1/16 of an inch
    spaces in many places in the boat were the bulkheads meet the sole. This can be seen
    in the salon, galley, head, etc. Doors don't close the same, etc. Maybe I need a maritime attorney?
     
  13. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
    Posts: 1,862
    Likes: 86, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1146
    Location: Newfoundland & Nova Scotia

    viking north VINLAND

    What was the surveyers report on this and other issues-- ?? This is the info that the atterney will want to know prior to taking action. This is what your case will be built upon--Thus the importance in our responses that he be a top independant surveyer. In your case the best that money can hire--It will be wisely spent.--
     
  14. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    5 feet of water is quite a lot to absorb most or all of the weight, and as the strap was above ripping the deck it would still be holding weight. I don't think hitting the bottom would have had that much damage potential.

    By the way what was the botton made of,-- solid or soft mud

    Its possible they are two separate issues and we may still be talking about a bad bearing replacement.

    I would be slicing up the concrete today wether the surveyor wants to or not, but im sure he will.

    You dont want him to visit twice and the easier he can see the porb the better
     

  15. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 467, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I've seen boats dropped like this and completely disagree in the damage potential. Most travel lifts have hard (read concrete) bottoms, which is a wee bit tough on a hull if dropped. In a drop, the water is being pushed aside and not offering a lot of resistance. In fact, if the boat was dropped and you had plenty of room below, the boat will sink well past it's LWL, possibly several feet, before stopping and rising.

    I agree in that the concrete should just be removed. It's a pain in the butt job, but not so bad with modern tools. An angle grinder and a 4" tile cutting blade can make handy size chunks, very quickly. Lots of dust, so a garden hose set to slightly mist as you work will help. draw a grid on the top of the casting, as deep as the saw will permit, then pop them loose with a hammer. It's tedious, dusty and noisy, but not especially difficult. The little squares will pop right off, or you can use an air chisel to speed up this portion of the job.

    I'll suspect you'll find more things to address once the concrete is removed, now that you'll be able to see them.
     
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.