Trying to make aluminum flat bottom 16 foot there is a form machine to strenghten hull what is it?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Keith777, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. Keith777
    Joined: Aug 2018
    Posts: 6
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: bc

    Keith777 Junior Member

    I caint find the machine name to form a channel into the hull to provide strength..i aak you because it will hwlp me find the right compant to form the hull.
    I am in canada and the length is 6x16 foot.
    Can you also help me aource 20 foot aluminum sheets in canada.1/8th
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,391
    Likes: 233, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Swaging is a term used for what you are describing.
     
  3. Barry
    Joined: Mar 2002
    Posts: 1,084
    Likes: 62, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 158

    Barry Senior Member

    Samuel Metals, Ryerson aluminum in Vancouver. 20 footers, 5086 I think H32 most common alloy

    Three ways to put a channel form into a sheet
    1) top and bottom bottoming die where the top of the die has the inside measurement and the bottom die has the outside measurement. Probably
    unable to get to 90 degrees and unlikely you will find such a company who would form this

    2) on mass production a series of incremental rolls in a roll former, again unlikely

    3) A 20 foot press brake with a 3 to 3 1/2 foot throat

    We used to own a single upper and lower roll former but this was only to stiffen the side panels. About 1/2 raised channel with a 2 inch flat.
    Not enough for bottom stiffening.

    1/8 inch on a hull bottom is pretty light, what type of boat is it?

    I missed the header flat bottom boat

    the problem if you form channels into the bottom is to try to roll the front part of the hull up. Ie install formed stiffeners for rigidity and then try to bend them for the bow

    But doable

    With a flat bottom before the turn up for the bow, no issues. Then say the front 1/4 turns up. So a 1/4 back from the bow, plasma cut or use a cut off blade and cut the vertical side members out from the channels the rest of the way through the curve.
    1/8 is flexible enough to then manually bend it upwards using the same channel leg distance. Make a pattern and cut the sides of the channel from 1/8 inch sheet and weld
    these onto the top of the old channel.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 5,939
    Likes: 319, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    If you're going to form it directly, then you need to be aware that any radii (at the corners) must be at least 4 x plate thickness.

    I never understand why everyone elects to use such a highly strain hardened alloy.
    I never use it, I always use "O" temper.
     
  5. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,996
    Likes: 310, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    For a 16' × 6' flat bottomed aluminum DIY boat maybe swage the panels on a hand operated swaging machine before putting them together . . ?

     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  6. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,996
    Likes: 310, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    May need to DIY build one with sufficient throat depth for your boat, note the machine's "C-frame" needs to be strong for that.

    Below some examples from Amazon UK, one without foot and 18¼" (464 mm) throat depth, and one with foot and 18" (457 mm) throat depth, although the basic machines look the same to me, and I'd used some better bearings...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Note post #4 and soften the "corners" on the last above pic's lower rolls, you can also use/make V rolls with on all three "corners" sufficient radii, I would go for large diameter rolls since they roll lighter, and have less slip on the sheet.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  7. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,391
    Likes: 233, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The other way to stiffen it would be some top-hat extrusions
     
  8. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,996
    Likes: 310, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    And stitch or full weld them over the sheets, or full weld them between the sheets ?
     
  9. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,391
    Likes: 233, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Could put them on the outside or the inside, outside gives a little grip on the water, too.
     
  10. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,996
    Likes: 310, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    When adding top hat extrusions or other profiles as stiffeners, then might as well rivet the whole boat to avoid all the welding distortion.

    But think I would then prefer to build the boat in plywood and epoxy.

    Below some pics and a promo from Lund, they use 5052-H34 aluminum, but as they don't weld they don't mess with the hardening of the alloy.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Note the Lund Jon boat series do have a swage to the outside in the hull sides for stiffening, but these could be replaced by an added profile as well...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    The last two above are Lund Jon boats of L 15' 10" (4.83 m) × B 5' 10" (1.78 m), both for 35 HP max, I believe. — they're not shown to the same scale here —
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  11. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,996
    Likes: 310, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Just saw Lund Jon boats have also swages to the outside on the bottom for stiffening and for grip on the water, but these could be replaced by outside added profiles, like on the other Lund boats, this also prevents the boat from leaking when an to the outside directed stiffener wears out through bottom contact.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    P.S. —

    The center longitudinal stiffener seems to be an added profile here, all the other longitudinal stiffeners look to be swaged, the advertised asking price of that one new in Clarenville on Newfoundland is Canadian $ 2,999.00 (US $ / )

    — on the foreground, 2 × 2017 built Lund Jon Boat 1648 T — that's the same one as on the bottom of post #10
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  12. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 7,391
    Likes: 233, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    1/8" is pretty thick material for a small boat with swaging or added longitudinal stiffeners, most would go thinner.
     
  13. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,996
    Likes: 310, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I've seen a design that switched from 1/8" (3.175 mm) to 3 mm hull skin, to save 5.5% on the hull skin weight.
     
  14. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,182
    Likes: 98, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 758
    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Why to make simple when you can make complicated with a lot of expensive tooling for just ONE 16 feet flat bottom...I'll never understand this wish for complication.
     

  15. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 2,996
    Likes: 310, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Maybe the thread was started to find out about the added complexity of the asked for method for DIY building a single 16' × 6' flat bottom aluminum boat.

    Since no sheets are cut to form yet, no harm has been done yet either, the first cut will be the deepest, so one needs to know where to go from there . . .


    — Originally by Cat Stevens
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.