Trying to design my own cat.

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Richard Atkin, Aug 12, 2007.

  1. rayaldridge
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    Well, I'm relying on my experience offshore in both kinds of boats. Although there are legitimate reasons to pick a monohull over a multihull, comfort is not one of those reasons. I think any fair-minded person who has sailed on both kinds of sailboat in rough conditions will admit that multis are a lot more comfortable.

    This is the point in the discussion where a monohull true believer will usually chime in about how intolerable the quick motion of a cat is compared to the slower motion of a monohull. That's nonsense.

    The two main reasons that monos are less comfortable than multis are:

    1) Monos heel. It's been substantiated by the U.S. Navy that heeling leads to a swift decline in crew efficiency. It's hard to live in a room that's constantly oscillating violently.

    2) Monos roll. This is the motion that leads to seasickness for most folks, which is a debilitating condition. The slow sickening roll of a mono in a seaway can be gotten used to, of course, but usually not on a day trip to Catalina. It generally takes several days. Even after you get used to it, it's still an exhausting exercise to deal with, hour after hour, day in and day out.

    I'm not sure you're thinking this party concept through. Try having a party for 8 in a broom closet, because that's about how much room you'll have on a trailer sailer. If a party in a broom closet is still fun, then you have extraordinary friends.

    My opinion is that it's far better to have the party on the beach after the sail. When you're sailing, immerse yourself in the sensations of sailing, because that's really why you're out on the ocean in a sailboat. There are more comfortable ways to get to Catalina.

    Ray

    http://slidercat.com/blog/wordpress
     
  2. Richard Atkin
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    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Hi Rick,
    I have been looking at your solar boat design. It has features that contradict Gary Baigent's advice to me. Your hull is not only double-ended...the stern is actually thinner than the bow. I'm guessing this is not ideal for pushing through choppy waves. Maybe your design won't pitch badly because you don't have a big tall rig, and your boat is very light. Maybe it doesn't matter if your boat pitches because it is not relying on sails. And maybe it does matter because the flat vertical face at the stern will cause a lot of drag if it keeps burying.
    Maybe you should go for a wide transom just to make it more sea-worthy. Have you done any assessment on how it will perform in waves?
     
  3. Richard Atkin
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    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Ray, I take your point, but I think you are referring to catamarans that are demountable. I think my little cat is going to roll like a small planing mono dinghy. It won't fly like a Hobie. I am keen to get it built if I can. If it sucks on the open sea, it should still be fun on the lakes.

    I'm not concerned about many people in a tight space. It's never been a problem for me before :D Have you ever been squashed in a tent with many others? No big deal. If you have a big space, but people are still squashed together, then I can see your point.
     
  4. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    Hello Richard,

    A feller that looks at mono's from cats is confused... frustrated and at witt's end :D

    Have a look here -

    http://www.go-catamaran.com/avent28.php

    This is a demountable boat that is designed to handle up to 8 people (sharing :D) and this is also the thing I had in my minds-eye that you were looking for.

    It is the right size, easy to handle and would be safer than a smaller cat.
     
  5. rayaldridge
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    Why do you feel that way? My little cat Slider doesn't roll at all, and is highway legal, with fixed beams. Of course, to be fair, she's only 16 feet long. Four adults would overload her.

    Ray

    http://slidercat.com
     
  6. Fanie
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    Fanie Fanie

    I've been trying to get Richard to go for a spin on someone's rig so he can get a feel for it, but no, he would rather theorize about the capabilities and how it would feel on the water.

    My suggestion is still to go on two or three different size boats and cast your vote on what you want then. I just bet you'll fall in love with something like I posted in my previous thread.

    You can always excersise your voice singing on the boat. Worst that can happen is the guy can throw you overboard :D
     
  7. ropf
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    ropf Junior Member

    Richard, i didn't want to piss you, sorry. The point is, you enjoy your snuggy tent because it is dry, warm, it d'oesnt shake (exept to an earthquake), you can always go out and erect to your full size... and the tent doesn't need to sail windward.

    There are some trailerable cats able to carry weight of 6-8 the people. But after some hours you will hate them. And of course fully laden they don't sail well. So i think rayaldridge is right - coose a boat for quick sailing, carry some camping equip and make the party on the beach.

    It's mutch more fun if your friends have their own boats. You can sail in fleet or even do a matchrace to an quiet beach, enjoying the campfire as well the snug and dry tent. A sailing boat serving as comfortabe transporter as well as party ponton will be *very* big.

    with regards ropf
     
  8. Richard Atkin
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    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Hi All.

    I'm not at my wits end and I'm not pissed off, and I'm not confused. Just still trying to make up my mind.

    Ray, I was thinking of what it would be like to sail a small cat through 2 to 3 ft waves for 12 hours, getting from Long Beach to Catalina. I imagine it would become tiring, and my adventurous shipmates might lose their enthusiasm.

    I don't want a demountable cat, Fanie. Lots of reasons. One of those reasons is that I want to rig a boat in 10 minutes.

    I've been thinking of another idea. A wide flat monohull with no ballast. The crew of 6 could sail it like a dinghy, using crew weight for stability. If it capsizes, a large carbon fibre ladder could be attached to the centreboard well. Some people could climb the ladder, which would create a very effective ballast for righting the boat. The hull would be flat enough to provide some initial stability.

    A boat like this would be extremely light and strong, and ideal for dragging up on to a beach. It would provide better accomodation than a cat, and would be much better for handling the weight of 6 adults.

    I haven't got time to pursue this idea at the moment, but it might be a good option.

    Cheers
     
  9. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    For that 12 hour PLUS sail?????? "....cat through 2 to 3 ft waves for 12 hours, getting from Long Beach to Catalina...." - the song says "...27 miles across the sea..."
     
  10. bobg3723
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    bobg3723 Senior Member

    Hello Richard,
    Twelve hours back to port, sounds like an an Avalon to San Diego leg at arond 60 nautical miles or so as the crow flies. At monohull speeds, that sounds about right.

    Regards,
    Bob
     
  11. Gary Baigent
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    Gary Baigent Senior Member

    switching to monohull

    Richard you turncoat
    Maybe you could consider one of these: the Cox's Bay skimmer, 5.5 x 2.25 metres, free standing wing masted schooner rig, water ballasted (when you need it) 120 kgs boat weight empty (maybe) and could carry 5 people - but it is a day boat with however two mean quarter berths forward. Now who is the turncoat.
     

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  12. bobg3723
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    bobg3723 Senior Member

    Richard,
    For what it's worth, my uncle once took his 17' Hydroswift I/O powerboat (this was in the 70's) across the strait to the Channel Islands, chaperoned by a friend following in another powerboat.

    He said he'ld never do it again. The way he put it sounded like it got hairy out there for him. He didn't explain exactly what, but the Hydroswift was not up to the job.

    Regards,
    Bob
     
  13. Richard Atkin
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    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Hi Mas,
    yeah, it always takes longer than people predict. Get caught in some chop and the wind is dying.....
     
  14. Richard Atkin
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    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Gary, I am very interested in that general design. You've got me more excited about the whole idea of doing something like that. Maybe just a tad bigger, and a proper, but small low cabin. 3 couples so no-one has to leave the wife behind.
    I still want to talk to you in future when I am ready to start designing or purchasing the final design. Maybe you would be interested in designing a new one?
     

  15. Richard Atkin
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    Richard Atkin atn_atkin@hotmail.com

    Bob,
    power boats have the wofting stench of satan. I don't like them :D

    cheers
     
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