Troller Yachts vs Trawler Yachts

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Greenseas2, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. fcfc
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    fcfc Senior Member

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=94236#post94236
     
  2. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Well, original or not ( on the basis of fcfc's post...:confused: ) that's a very professionally put together web page for the vg26. If the plans are 1/2 as good you should be in for a treat.
     
  3. Pericles
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    Pericles Senior Member

    Whilst fcfc has a point about the earlier boats, that they might have been an inspiration to Jacques, I believe the crucial difference is that the VG26 is stitch and glue rather than frame and ply sheathing (if that is how those boats were constructed?). This means building the VG26 should be easier and the resulting vessel will be of robust monocoque construction. That said, I must confirm that it is the LB26 that I shall build. Perhaps the plans will arrive today!! C'mon Postie.:cool:

    Jacques does not make choosing a boat to build easy. His CX25 is highly desirable.

    http://www.boatplans-online.com/studyplans/CX25_study.htm

    Then there is the long cabin version of the DE25.

    http://www.boatplans-online.com/studyplans/DE25Cabin_study.htm

    Hell's teeth! I want them all!!!

    Guillermo,

    Thanks for your words of encouragement.

    Best regards,


    Pericles
     
  4. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Oh - yes - sorry I was actually looking at the LB26... a very attractive little boat - and as I said before, on a very well presented web page
     
  5. Gilbert
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    Gilbert Senior Member

    I will confess that I have not read every post on this thread. But I want to comment on the fact that folks are refering to trollers as a type of boat. Trolling is a type of fishing. You can use any boat you like to troll. Therefor there is no such thing as a trolliing style cruising boat. The same thing applies to trawlers of course. But I guess you can't fight mislabeled media nomenclature.
    Skippers who intend to troll in bad weather do not want a boat that is stiff or has a high level of stability. They want a very gentle roll. Otherwise the fishing gear will likely suffer a lot of damage. One of the tricks they would use to slow the roll is to make a cup at the top of the mast rather like a typical stand for a globe and put a 50 pound trolling weight in it. If the boat rolled far enough the round trolling weight would fall out and the righting moment would improve. They use paravanes under some conditions and they usually have a small steadying sail to use at times.
    You can have a trolling boat that is converted to cruising such as bussman has commented about in a recent post.
     
  6. Pierre R
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    Pierre R Senior Member

    I am enjoying this thread very much. I like most of the boats that have been presented here. I do have a converted round bottom boat. shown here http://groups.msn.com/TrawlerMV/piouspuffin.msnw

    Pious Puffin is a modifed Permacraft 26. LOA 26', LWL 23',Beam 9'2", Draft 2'10" Air Draft with mast 15'5", Displacement 8500lbs 10,000lb in cruise condition/ full tanks. Headroom varies between 6' 2" and 6'9". Pilot house is e-glass/epoxy over eastern white cedar. Pious Puffin is equiped with 105 square inch Paravane stabilizers on 9' poles. The engine is a Sabb H2 with 19" controllable pitch propeller. Close maneuvering is with a 4hp Lemar bow thruster. Water is 70 gallons and diesel is 60 gallons, holding is 27gal. Cruise is 6 knots @ 1300 rpm on 0.6 gph.

    Electrical is 4-6V golf cart, 1-12V start battery, 150 amp alternator, smart regulator/welder, 2000w inverter, AC, refrigeration.

    Since these pictures were taken I have added tons of storage spaces. I am quite comfortable on this boat for extended periods of time. I like it well enough I will probably keep it.
     
  7. chandler
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    chandler Senior Member

    how about a definative definition between trawler and troller.
    Experienced power cruisers are happy with hull speed. No matter what the hull shape only billionaires can afford to plane for thousands of miles.
     
  8. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    " No matter what the hull shape only billionaires can afford to plane for thousands of miles."


    Perhaps , but there are semi-plaining designs , with special features that CAN run at SL 2,3 even 4!!! with modest fuel consumption.

    The Box Keel with reverse deadrise as created by Atkin seems to do this well.

    There are half dozen threads here already on these unique boats.

    A small day boat claims 38nmpg at SL 2, not expensive cruising even when scaled up 6 times.

    FF
     
  9. SAQuestor
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    SAQuestor Senior Member

    Rescue Minor? Or another design? Give us a better clue or a link please.

    Leo
     
  10. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

  11. SAQuestor
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    SAQuestor Senior Member

    Fred,

    I'm not 100% convinced that hull form alone is responsible for this reported performance.

    As I do more and more research into both planing and semi-planing boat designs I am beginning to reach to conclusion that total weight of the boat, fuel, people and gear is the most important factor in achieving high miles per gallon numbers. And the most important number of all is the bottom loading factor - i.e., how much weight does each square foot of bottom have to support when the boat is at cruising speed.

    Though it appears that there is not a 100% direct correlation between total displacement and economy, this is also seems to be true for full displacement hull forms.

    Speed is also an obvious component of economical operation of any boat. Generally the slower one goes the more economy one achieves.

    This is where the hull form comes into play - some hull forms seem to be inherently more economical than other forms. It also appears that some of these hull forms violate "common tribal knowledge" and are dismissed by otherwise rational, reasonable and very knowledgeable and experienced folks as aberrations.

    Sadly, it doesn't appear that we have much solid evidence to judge performance of these 'aberrant' hull forms on. Lots of anecdotal and empirical evidence, but data seems to be in short supply.

    I admire the design work of father and son Atkin. Robb White's untimely demise deprived the world of not only his wit, but a large knowledge base from his years of boat building experience.

    I can only wish that there was more consensus agreement that the larger Seabright hull forms that Atkin's designed would in fact be as fuel efficient as the writings on the web site and in the articles originally published in MotorBoating magazine and then in their Ideal series of books, especially volume #46, seem to suggest. This is especially true as I get close to the drop dead date when I must start construction of my "Retirement Cruiser" so that it'll be ready to go when I am.

    Best,

    Leo
     
  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Generally the slower one goes the more economy one achieves."

    The slower one goes the less HP is required to move,

    BUT , many "modern high speed" diesels will burn considerably MORE fuel to generate HP much below the torque peak.

    So just slowing down , may not give the range and endurance you are expecting.

    FF
     
  13. CaptScot
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    CaptScot Junior Member

    How about a Troller Yacht - Diesel Duck 38? They are very economical to run and sail with many used for bluewater cruising world wide. All are amateur built and the least costliest way to get out there for the average guy.

    I need to part with a complete set of professional plans 17 sheets (24" x 36") for a low maintenance fiberglass/wood/epoxy Diesel duck 38 by reknown yacht designer George Buehler. Included on rolls are lofted to full-size most hull station molds.

    As much as I planned and looked forward to beginning this interesting, fun as easily do-able project for a long time, at present building a Diesel Duck of my own is not in the cards. Therefore, I am offering for sale for some lucky person these plans for a bargin price and fraction of the original price of $500, plus postage or make offer. The DD38 plans originally sell for $2,295, see links to Buehler website below.

    Also included are two books: Buehler's Backyard Boatbuilder, Boatbuilding by Chapelle. The Diesel Duck is George Buehler's most popular design with dozens of these sturdy homebuilt ocean going boats sailing the world; see links. Buehler's practical design permits an amateur to build a sturdy boat from scratch with ordinary materials, ordinary tools, custom built to your needs and taste, all for a fraction of the price of a new boat. They are also economical to run.

    There is a member group of several Diesel Duck homebuilders sharing info and photos at Yahoogroup's BackyardBoatbuilders2". Buehler's book "The Troller Yacht" would also be a good book to have for building this boat which describes these type of trawler yachts.

    Easy to build, lots of room for liveaboard cruising, and furnished to what ever your imagination can dream up. The oceans of the world will be your oyster, not just reserved for the mega-buck yachts. My email scottcatherine@yahoo.com

    http://dieselducks.com/Jerrys 38Duck-2.html

    http://dieselducks.com/Duck38study.html

    http://dieselducks.com/stock plans.html
     
  14. norwester
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    norwester Norwester123

    Looking for Troller designs

    I have been trying to locate a source for troller designs but have not had much luck. The Pacific Northwest at one time had a lot of trollers plying offshore waters for salmon. Everything I've read about them reflect an economical and safe vessel. I know Edwin Monk designed some but his plans are no longer available according to Mr Monk Jr in Bainbridge WA. Haven;t found anything yet at the Mystic Seaport or Smithsonian web sites. Does anyone have any suggestions. With todays fuel prices these boats make sense. I've looked at George Buhlers designs and they are very nice but I was hoping I could find a source for the plans from a historical source. I plan on building out of wood so the older plans would be fine I'm sure.
     

  15. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    Welcome aboard, norwester

    This thread is a few years out of date so I don't know how many replies you'll get, but did you look at the link in the post immediately above?
     
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