Trimarans of the Everglades Challenge 2013

[hoytedow]

http://www.watertribe.com/events/evergladeschallenge/

http://www.watertribe.com/events/evergladeschallenge/Default.aspx

See Special Note 1.

 

[Blackburn]

^^^

Thanks, Hoyt. I had a look at the Everglades Challenge tracker to see where the sailors (as opposed to paddlers) went through Florida Bay.

First graphic is the 2013 track of Iszatarock, a Mystere 4.3 (14ft) which was the fastest multi last year at 2d 10h 13m:




Next is the 2013 track of the monohull 'Dawn Patrol' (class 4), the first boat in and fastest ever monohull at 2d 2m:




From those tracks it looks as if Isztatarock pulled his cat across islands/flats and kept a straight line that way? Being solo he had to stop and sleep I suppose, and that's why the monohull finished ahead of him?

Haven't been able to find any tracks of those who'd sailed the course faster in 2008, 2010 and 2011.

Dawn Patrol's crew wrote a well-detailed blog about their race here.

His description of following the narrow channels of Florida Bay reminds me of a time I struggled with outgoing tide in the Waddensee in Holland, where some of the narrow channels were similarly marked with a charming old system of wood sticks.

 

[Tom.151]

First graphic is the 2013 track of Iszatarock, a Mystere 4.3 (14ft) which was the fastest multi last year at 2d 10h 13m:
From those tracks it looks as if Isztatarock pulled his cat across islands/flats and kept a straight line that way? Being solo he had to stop and sleep I suppose, and that's why the monohull finished ahead of him?

Looking at that track (Iszatarock) - it's a straight line - VERY unlikely that he actually could have sailed a course that perfectly straight.

I was looking through the charts just yesterday and would suggest that such a course seems neither likely nor possible when looking at the charts of Florida Bay and the obstacles along that path, particularly the Black Betsy Keys and the Swash Keys.

More likely the tracker was off/defective (or not turned back on after checking in at Flamingo) during that leg from Flamingo to Largo.

 

[Blackburn]

Looking at that track (Iszatarock) - it's a straight line - VERY unlikely that he actually could have sailed a course that perfectly straight.

I was looking through the charts just yesterday and would suggest that such a course seems neither likely nor possible when looking at the charts of Florida Bay and the obstacles along that path, particularly the Black Betsey Keys and the Swash Keys.

More likely the tracker was off/defective (or not turned back on after checking in at Flamingo) during that leg from Flamingo to Largo.

I'm sure you're right Tom, when I now zoom in on the tracker there isn't the slightest wiggle in the line (which I had imagined I saw when zoomed out).

But suppose you have the wind and tide conditions to stay as close to the rhumbline as possible, then where can you do it?

Looking at the maps on this page, then sailing from Flamingo you can go north of Palm Key, north of Buoy Key, out between the channel in Dump Key, and then what?

There's channels at the south end of Samphire Key and through the basin between Triplet and Club Keys (on the map page linked above, zoom all the way in to see it).

And a 14ft cat is light enough that you might be able to drag it over some obstacles instead of sail around them?

Did Hal Link (Iszatarock) switch off his tracker so as to keep his route secret?

 

[Tom.151]

But suppose you have the wind and tide conditions to stay as close to the rhumbline as possible, then where can you do it?

See attached screen shot of some of the routes through Florida Bay
Included are parts of the route that Dawn Patrol took for her 2d -2m record - looking at the three routes coming out of Jimmie Channel - the middle one (color Cyan) which goes North as it passes just West of Stake Key is theirs. That channel is where they broke their mast.

I'm sure there are many more - but as always - which way to go depends more on the wind and tide situation at the moment than on the rhumb line.

Considering that this leg begins after you've already sailed 265 miles full tilt boogie - it's hard for me to imagine someone intentionally planning a route that requires them to drag their boat for any distance. Just saying.

 

[tom28571]

Not possible to simply walk and drag a boat across Florida bay. The bottom is not sand but mud and you will sink way down. Some kind of large area on your feet similar to snowshoes are needed in many places.

 

[hoytedow]

You are better off staying in the boat. I don't know what it is like in Holland but in Florida Bay many hungry things want to eat you.

http://floridakeyssharkadventures.com/know-your-sharks/

 

[Blackburn]

See attached screen shot of some of the routes through Florida Bay
Included are parts of the route that Dawn Patrol took for her 2d -2m record - looking at the three routes coming out of Jimmie Channel - the middle one (color Cyan) which goes North as it passes just West of Stake Key is theirs. That channel is where they broke their mast.

I'm sure there are many more - but as always - which way to go depends more on the wind and tide situation at the moment than on the rhumb line.

Considering that this leg begins after you've already sailed 265 miles full tilt boogie - it's hard for me to imagine someone intentionally planning a route that requires them to drag their boat for any distance. Just saying.

I found it cool on the Google satellite photo, that if you zoom all the way in on Dump Key, there's the wake of a motorboat which you can follow to the east and west (the boat itself is also on the photo a little west of Dump Key).

That gives me a better idea of the size of that channel, which doesn't look all too different from channels I'm familiar with a little further north.

What I conclude from that, is that on the approx. 30 mile leg between Flamingo and Key Largo the only obstacle which leads competitors to deviate as far south as they do, is the Black Betsy Keys; find a quicker way to get on the other side of them and it could be a big advantage?

I'd drag a 14-ft cat across a little Key, if it allowed me a secret short cut.

But I'd otherwise be very averse, to having my snowshoes bitten off by a hungry shark on the mud flats... lol

 

[hoytedow]

Don't ignore the snakes, especially rattlers and moccasins.

http://gomiami.about.com/od/FloridaEverglades/a/Snakes-Of-The-Florida-Everglades.htm

 

[2far2drive]

I found it cool on the Google satellite photo, that if you zoom all the way in on Dump Key, there's the wake of a motorboat which you can follow to the east and west (the boat itself is also on the photo a little west of Dump Key).

That gives me a better idea of the size of that channel, which doesn't look all too different from channels I'm familiar with a little further north.

What I conclude from that, is that on the approx. 30 mile leg between Flamingo and Key Largo the only obstacle which leads competitors to deviate as far south as they do, is the Black Betsy Keys; find a quicker way to get on the other side of them and it could be a big advantage?

I'd drag a 14-ft cat across a little Key, if it allowed me a secret short cut.

But I'd otherwise be very averse, to having my snowshoes bitten off by a hungry shark on the mud flats... lol

The entire problem with your reasoning here is that you are using google satellite photos to try and "navigate" very un-navigable waters. Try using real charts, published for free from the NOAA. Start here.
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/11451a.shtml

I have actually sailed, seeming more like the minority these days on this forum, from Miami to Key West, at night, first time, via back keys channels to Key West. ALL SAIL! Only motored (no wind at all) through Biscayne bay. Sailed the rest of the night and following day on the back channels through the keys on a 42' cat I was delivering.

This area is very tricky. The biggest piece of advice I took to heart and learned... the lighter the water color, up to yellow, the shallower it is... stay away! Its a total maze of reef and flats and could easily get you killed or severely stranded if you decided to "drag your boat" or plow your own route. The Texas200, which I did one year on a hobie 14, goes through some serious oyster reef backbay stuff that stranded a ton of boats that I helped save (read the small craft advisor article on the 2009 texas200, im mentioned in there) but that was nothing compared to the back water keys, and I didn't even get that cat up into Florida Bay proper.

For living "just up the way", you don't have much experience in these waters judging from your comments and use of satellite photos to navigate some of the trickiest water I have ever seen. A north wind literally blows all of the water out of here and you will be stranded for days awaiting its return. We have the same semi-phenomenon here in west Galveston bay on or Norwester, but not to this extreme.

The Black Betsey Keys are not the only obstacle that makes them sail south, again, use a real chart. How about miles of extremely shallow water filled with reef and mud flats? Have you ever drug a 14 cat anywhere? I doubt it. I once drug my Hobie 14 turbo maybe 30-40 yards up the beach to my trailer and I decided I had enough of that. These keys (again, right down the road from you, so you should do some exploring. florida is a very small place) are covered in impenetrable mangrove and small bush and there is no way you could drag any boat across them. Even if you did, anyone's small southward jaunt will still beat you by far. There is a channel to the north of but looking at rough plotting, its about the same distance as heading south. Even if you went through the north channel, you would still have to split Bob Keys and Park Key, putting you almost back on the same track as if you headed south...

Ive literally almost circumnavigated florida via offshore, coastal, and icw. Next time, post something more realistic and do your homework first before spouting off such comments.

Better yet, look for me in the lineup of the 2015 EC. My tri (wood's strike 18), which should be complete early spring will get its shakedown on another Texas200 this year.

 

[Blackburn]

The entire problem with your reasoning here is that you are using google satellite photos to try and "navigate" very un-navigable waters. Try using real charts, published for free from the NOAA. Start here.
http://www.charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/11451a.shtml

I have actually sailed, seeming more like the minority these days on this forum, from Miami to Key West, at night, first time, via back keys channels to Key West. ALL SAIL! Only motored (no wind at all) through Biscayne bay. Sailed the rest of the night and following day on the back channels through the keys on a 42' cat I was delivering.

This area is very tricky. The biggest piece of advice I took to heart and learned... the lighter the water color, up to yellow, the shallower it is... stay away! Its a total maze of reef and flats and could easily get you killed or severely stranded if you decided to "drag your boat" or plow your own route. The Texas200, which I did one year on a hobie 14, goes through some serious oyster reef backbay stuff that stranded a ton of boats that I helped save (read the small craft advisor article on the 2009 texas200, im mentioned in there) but that was nothing compared to the back water keys, and I didn't even get that cat up into Florida Bay proper.

For living "just up the way", you don't have much experience in these waters judging from your comments and use of satellite photos to navigate some of the trickiest water I have ever seen. A north wind literally blows all of the water out of here and you will be stranded for days awaiting its return. We have the same semi-phenomenon here in west Galveston bay on or Norwester, but not to this extreme.

The Black Betsey Keys are not the only obstacle that makes them sail south, again, use a real chart. How about miles of extremely shallow water filled with reef and mud flats? Have you ever drug a 14 cat anywhere? I doubt it. I once drug my Hobie 14 turbo maybe 30-40 yards up the beach to my trailer and I decided I had enough of that. These keys (again, right down the road from you, so you should do some exploring. florida is a very small place) are covered in impenetrable mangrove and small bush and there is no way you could drag any boat across them. Even if you did, anyone's small southward jaunt will still beat you by far. There is a channel to the north of but looking at rough plotting, its about the same distance as heading south. Even if you went through the north channel, you would still have to split Bob Keys and Park Key, putting you almost back on the same track as if you headed south...

Ive literally almost circumnavigated florida via offshore, coastal, and icw. Next time, post something more realistic and do your homework first before spouting off such comments.

Better yet, look for me in the lineup of the 2015 EC. My tri (wood's strike 18), which should be complete early spring will get its shakedown on another Texas200 this year.

First of all let me say I'm delighted to stand corrected (and so emphatically)
by a self-confessed puddle jumper.

Someone so accomplished in the fine art of puddle-jumping, moreover, that he can boast of having attained the status of Savior (if not outright Sainthood, yet) among all those of lesser skill in that most fearsome type of sailing competition; which takes place in oyster beds...

Lol.


Secondly, I would recommend to you a closer study of the satellite photos of which you so condescendingly disapprove; they are often wonderfully detailed, offering useful close-up knowledge of whether the bottom is of grass, mud, sand, rocks or coral - something your precious charts won't be able to show near as well!

Have I ever drug a 14 footer? I wouldn't be seen dead on a 14-footer!

(but I have drug a 16-footer, and gotten struck by lightning in the process)

To differ with you again (unfortunately), I'm not overly concerned that anyone may 'easily get killed' by standing in silt for a while anywhere along the Florida coast.

Was your mother overly protective? Why do you give credence to such nonsense?

 

[2far2drive]

First of all let me say I'm delighted to stand corrected (and so emphatically)
by a self-confessed puddle jumper.

Someone so accomplished in the fine art of puddle-jumping, moreover, that he can boast of having attained the status of Savior (if not outright Sainthood, yet) among all those of lesser skill in that most fearsome type of sailing competition; which takes place in oyster beds...

Lol.


Secondly, I would recommend to you a closer study of the satellite photos of which you so condescendingly disapprove; they are often wonderfully detailed, offering useful close-up knowledge of whether the bottom is of grass, mud, sand, rocks or coral - something your precious charts won't be able to show near as well!

Have I ever drug a 14 footer? I wouldn't be seen dead on a 14-footer!

(but I have drug a 16-footer, and gotten struck by lightning in the process)

To differ with you again (unfortunately), I'm not overly concerned that anyone may 'easily get killed' by standing in silt for a while anywhere along the Florida coast.

Was your mother overly protective? Why do you give credence to such nonsense?

They were all examples to show you Im not and very far from the typical armchair forum BS sailors that roam the internet, I speak from real and ongoing experience.

I dont disapprove of satellite photos at all. Im a heavy Google Earth user (constant search for far flung remote surf breaks) but I know not to use it in search of navigable waters without consulting charts for a side by side.

My response was generated by the shear sillyness of your posts, nothing more. The very idea of dragging a boat across the keys/mudflats is ridiculous and someone sailing a slight southern route would easily blow you away by the time you began hacking your way across mangrove covered and most likely "protected" keys. Again, your google imagery shows this...

Im not suggesting that you could get killed sanding in silt. I constantly and continue to downplay the warnings of injury/stranding/death on the Texas200 but I dont ignore that something can go terribly wrong when you are that isolated. Very easy to start getting dehydrated when you a hacking/slashing your way across keys dragging a boat and/or stuck in mud flats. I for one dont ever want to entertain the idea of abanonding a boat, especially one I just finished building... so I take these areas seriously. I dont have the time or the money to walk away from boats when the going gets rough like the fool did in the Texas200, after I and a few other guys rescued his new Potter 16 from the oyster reefs after it sank. Had he been alone when he went over, it would have been an entirely different ordeal for him. Ill bet he wears something better than sandals next time he's sailing near oysterbeds though.

I realize that I finished the Texas200 rather unscathed by no small amount of luck. There was some decent navigating on my part (using charts. the majority of the wrecked boats were using fishing charts of all things, to havigate by!) but also a lot of luck. Had anything broken on my boat that would have prevented some form of sail being raised, I would have had to abandon it all. I had no paddle, no motor, nothing... and I do consider myself a little lucky on that.

Anyways, Im sorry if I offended. Its just the shear sillyne... wait, idiocy, of your previous post that set me off.

If you really live near these areas then I consider you lucky as Florida has some fine backwater and coastal sailing areas to explore (along with all that pesky coastal developement that prevents nice beach camping) and I have been considering a move for some time. Perhaps you should get out, maybe even buy a boat(hopefully a multihull or you are wasting your time here with us) and go sailing. Actually go check out these areas and see for yourself.

 

[Blackburn]

^^^

If I might ask a small favor of you, 2Far2Drive.

Please take a moment to award me some negative points.

(sometime last week, someone with the best of intentions
bumped me up from -1 to +14. I've not been able to sleep since)





For the record: in none of my idiotic posts have I ever suggested that dragging a boat through mud flats is a good idea.

(but I'm still charmed by the idea of taking a short cut across a little key)

Anyway, I've taken absolutely no offense at all.

And I've had various boats for ages. In Florida my boat of choice is an Everglades 223 with no T-top (saves weight) and a big engine with a jackplate to allow me to go anywhere with a foot of water. I'm usually there in the summertime and I enjoy finding my way through the shallows.


As far as sailing goes, I've wasted far too much time with it, already.

Lol.

 

[upchurchmr]

Well this rapidly got uninteresting.

I personally got tired of locker room boasting quite some time ago.

 

[Tom.151]

Well this rapidly got uninteresting.

I personally got tired of locker room boasting quite some time ago.

+1
and then some