Trimaran with accomodation in the amas

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by eiasu, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. eiasu
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    eiasu Junior Member

    Beautiful boat, thank you for the link, I really love the design and the accomodation spaces, and it's not so huge!

    This I do not understand, why you say this? Because of the motion?

    thank you
    eiasu
     
  2. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Yes, especially in a cross sea when the trimaran suffers from a "snap roll"

    Richard Woods
     
  3. eiasu
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    eiasu Junior Member

    does it make a difference when the trimaran is designed with one flying ama or the designs where all the three hulls are wet?
     
  4. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    I have to disagree. Most of the big wing deck accommodation tris keep their amas in or close to the water and function more like 3 hulled catamarans. The Cross 46 and 45' Nicol Voyager were the first really big ones and did very well in the charter industry where bunks that can't be used and unhappy guests don't make you money.
     
  5. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    In certain kinds of steep beam seas a flying ama boat could roll to the windward ama, less height less roll. Most of the time the wind in the sails will keep the motion slow or the ama flying.
     
  6. eiasu
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    eiasu Junior Member

    More I go into the subject and more the question is about how many hulls,
    if for a 78 feet multihull with great stability and very good performance and huge space
    is better a trimaran or if the trimaran option offers less floor space than the catamaran.
     
  7. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Even the most fervant Cross/Horstman advocate cannot say that those designs offer "very good performance" which, remember, Eiasu is requesting. Unless his definition is different from mine

    Few charterers sleep at sea. I still say you'll be more comfortable in a catamaran than a trimaran with accommodation in all three hulls.

    I think the numbers speak for themselves. How many trimarans these days are built for the charter trade? How many catamarans?

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  8. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The thread was called trimarans with accommodation in the amas. Maybe you should draw a big strike :)
     
  9. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The thing big tris have going for them is lower windage than a cat unless they get to a size where the wing decks have standing headroom. So you do get better windward performance for sail and keel sizes. As to high performance, most boats have to keep the pace to what the passengers can stand. A 20+ knot exotic speed charter boat should probably have foils to smooth things out.....and tie downs to lash the loungers to the deck.
     
  10. eiasu
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    eiasu Junior Member

    Thank you very much, the thing with gathering information is that from one question than another one arose and is not easy to keep on track with the thread.
    I think I got the point but I did not manage to translate (into Italian) this
    baseball terminology? :confused::confused:
    Anyway looks to me about the accomodation in the amas that - obiously - we
    cannot have everything: confort (means reduced motion) - space - and performance, what to say about the right cost !!!
    thank you everybody
    greetings
    Eiasu
     
  11. keysdisease
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    keysdisease Senior Member

    There is a saying, I believe Dick Newick coined:

    Speed - Cost - Accommodation

    Pick two

    Steve
     
  12. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Eiasu, i think Cav was making a reference to a small trimaran that Richard designed.

    Richard, a quality built (as opposed to a poor amature build) Cross or Horstman will perform at least as well as the majority of the popular production cats like Lagoons etc, of course they wont sail like a Gunboat but they still have very good performance. I agree that cats are a better configuration for getting good accomodation,the trimaran configuration puts the main saloon down in the bowels of the ship like a monohull although when you get really big this can change.

    Steve.
     
  13. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The Nicol is leaner than the average Cross or Horstman but even so with old sails and the daggerboard not in yet we pass larger cruising cats. I wouldn't expect to catch a lean Catana or Gunboat but the brokers are happier if we keep our distance while they are demonstrating.(It is embarrassing to be passed by what looks like a flashback from an Austin Powers movie:) Most of the cruising tris are better to windward do to the windage issue. The other advantage a tri can have is one of engineering. Rigging loads are supported by a central hull and the beams can be much shorter.
    Richard's Strikes are neat daysailer tris. He has been expanding into the 3 hull format and I expect he will crack eventually and start drawing some larger. His cats are fast, well thought out designs- He might even want to tri (sorry!) a huge charter version. Cats do make sense in many sizes but Dick Newick was right about the 2 out of 3 regardless of the amount of hulls. I'd be checking into proas as a faster more economic approach, plus you could enter and leave harbors without turning around.
     
  14. Richard Woods
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    So clearly others have a different definition of "very good performance", which to me would mean (in trimaran terms) at least as fast as a Farrier

    I have no plans to draw trimarans bigger than my Strike range, but I do have trimaran experience.

    For example when I was working for Derek Kelsall I drew this boat

    https://www.thedailysail.com/inshore/09/47102/a-report-from-the-peg-legs-round-tortola-race

    I also sailed extensively on Great Britain 4, and have raced most Farriers (including the Van Isle 360 on a F31R), most recently on Eric Pesty's F24

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     

  15. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    To me good performance encompasses a lot more than just going fast, its a whole package of things, Farriers do a lot of things well, some things not so much, just like many boats. In my admittedly very limited experience on a Horstman 35 many years ago we had no problem running down a John Spencer 45 ULDB on reach and they are no slouches. Upwind i dont know but the Horstmans in particular presents a low frontal area,huge wing clearance,reasonably light weight and with decent bottoms, modern daggers in the amas, a decent rig,hardware and most important modern performance oriented sails, i think they would do better than most of the current cats of a comparable size, but obviously not something like a Farrier, but then thats like comparing something like a Catana to a Kiwi 8.5m rule cat, the 8.5 would eat them for breakfast if speed was all you based performance on.
     
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