Trimaran project

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by davidcarey35, May 30, 2015.

  1. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Old maritime saying. Good, fast or cheap, pick any two.

    If cheap is the driving parameter then buy a secondhand boat and live with it's shortcomings.
    If you build cheap be prepared to throw it on the tip when your done with it.
    Or, build reputable hulls to a good standard and put a secondhand, scrounged rig and fittings on it. You can replace crappy sails but crappy hulls are yours forever.
     
  2. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Sorry,
    the multihull version is light, fast, cheap. :D
     
  3. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I wonder if you could stretch Gary's Ulua design to 24' make it a double outrigger and it would seem to fit your needs? Strip plank which is probably more work than a plywood multi chine build though. Gary Dierking posts on here from time to time why don't you message him through the pm feature he might be able to give you some feedback on how best to achieve your goals?
     
  4. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    A Wharram cat shows the amount of V needed to go to weather without a board and a boat with a board will do better. Trunks and daggers really aren't hard to make. Shallow draft is good to have on a beaching boat so you can get closer in before the tug of war starts. 200 pounds is doable with rollers but 400 needs rollers and tackle if all aren't pulling. I would go flat bottom for this one using something like a Quincy lumber skiff as a place to start, a long skinny dory with flare to haul the weight, get decent speed and be cheap and use a daggerboard. If on a budget go traditional laced on sail on home made spars. Duct tape and tarp will do for a start. When I'm rig experimenting on a smaller boat I'll use long skinny firs for the rig. Which reminds me its time to replace the tree trunk boom on the Nicol.....
     
  5. davidcarey35
    Joined: May 2015
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    davidcarey35 Junior Member

    Corley ; I really like the lines on the Ulua , there is a photo of one stretched to 20 , but i think max capacity is two crew . Even stretched to 24 I doubt it will hold 4

    upchurchmr ; "Then it probably will not go to weather well. " It has been designed by a naval architect , with v floats and a v hull . I dont know , but as suggested it could also have a board .

    2far2drive ; By "drag" I really meant two crew and hopefully two passersby to lift and inch it up . There are seldom ANY sailing boats ( or pleasure boats in general for that matter ) for sale where I am intending to build , and I have experienced nothing but problems buying one in the past .

    cavalier mk2 : The reason I lean towards a v bottom is that I intend using it out side of rivers and sheltered water . Previously I modified an open 16 ft canoe with sail , daggerboard and rudder ( all homemade ) . Across the lake , down the river and out though the breakers to sea - no outrigger . Sailed very nice considering . It had a flat bottom , and found that it slammed a little which bled the speed .
     
  6. AnthonyW
    Joined: Oct 2012
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    AnthonyW Senior Member

    This more what you have in mind?

    Solway Dory

    http://www.solwaydory.co.uk/products/sailing-canoes/osprey-outrigger-sailing-canoe/

    Don't think you can build it, but I am using as inspiration to build my triamaran which is based on a modified Windrush by Selway-Fisher (different company to Solway Dory).

    If its on the right track let me know and I can send you details on my build. Also re-designed somewhat for coastal waters. Helpful input from Paul Fisher. Picks of my main hull under construction on his website under Windrush. Extremely simple stitch and glue hull. Should carry four, but only with outriggers from donor catamarns. Aim is two adults, and two kids. Dummy bottom and lots of flotation. Will be a wet boat to sail.



    Ant
     

    Attached Files:

  7. AnthonyW
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    AnthonyW Senior Member

    Alternatively - how about this for thought?

    http://www.selway-fisher.com/Mcanoe.htm#TRICAN

    You could ask Paul to stretch it for you - he does modify his plans for a small fee. Or increase the V on the bottom if you are very keen on this.

    I got the DFX file from him, sent it for routing out the shapes, and stitched it with cable ties in about two hours (after but joining the planks).

    Masts could be two free standing ketch rigs - though you would need to do some woodwork to keep them in place.

    Not necessarily the answer, but perhaps food for thought.
     
  8. davidcarey35
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    davidcarey35 Junior Member

    AnthonyW : Even if that Trican could be stretched from 15 to 24 , the main hull beam would still far too wide .
     
  9. Jetboy
    Joined: Feb 2012
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    I agree with 2far2drive on the beach thing.

    I'm nearing completion of an 18' trimaran in honeycomb composite. It is much lighter than anything even remotely meeting you size requirements. It's incredibly light when you pick up one end of the main hull and realize it's only 150lbs. And there's not a chance that one person could drag it up onto the beach. Once you add beams, mast, sails, all the gear you'll carry, an outboard, etc, the sailing weight will easily push 600lbs. It is "beachable" in my idea of being able to sail up to the beach and rest the bow on the sand. But it would take at least 4 people to haul it up onto the sand entirely. The only realistic way to do so in my estimation would be to remove the 7:1 main sheet, bury the anchor up the beach, and use the main sheet to winch the boat up the beach a few feet at a time. That can be done, but it's not like dragging a beach cat up on the sand.

    Also IMO for a budget boat you need to buy a donor catamaran. There is no cheaper way to acquire all of the parts. For $1000 I bought a ready to sail nacra 5.2 with a very nice galvanized trailer - the trailer alone is worth half the cost. I've seen a few other cats go for more like $500. I wanted the floats for a specific reason for this boat, so the 5.2 was my choice. And by the time you buy even used sails and a mast you're into the project the other $500. And I also have a full set of all nearly new running rigging, blocks, cleats, mast step, etc. And a set of floats, centerboards, and a pair of rudders.

    The absolute cheapest, easiest trimaran that could be built and sail like it should, IMO would be to find a used Venture 22 or comparable swing keel very light weight boat. There's one near me for $250 that has a great hull, but needs other parts. Cut the bottom out of it and build a plywood canoe hull that gets grafted into the bottom. Then add a Nacra 5.2 or similar. You'd be into the whole boat around $1500, plus some plywood, some epoxy, some fiberglass, some fairing compound, and some paint. I think it would look good if you faired and grafted half way decently. It should sail like a champ. And it would be pretty cheap.

    I don't think you could build a 20+ foot trimaran for a whole lot less than that. Either way, I think any budget build has to start with a donor boat for sails and spars. You just can't even get close to assembling all of the stuff you'll want for less than what a cheap old worn out beach cat goes for these days.
     
  10. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    On the flat bottom end of things you should check out the videos of Dick Newick's Tremelino as well as Richard Wood's Strikes and the small Marple's Seaclippers. At those beam to length ratios there isn't much bottom left. A bow overhang insures that a V hits the waves. The Tremelino especially is one of the fastest boats around and has what amounts to a stretched banks dory hull. These boats all use donor cat parts to keep cost down. To carry 4 on a tri means more length or a wider hull so you'll have to pick.
     
  11. 2far2drive
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    2far2drive Senior Member

    seastallion just finished stripping the main hull of an Ulua, stretched to 24'. I just helped him external glass a few weeks ago, nice looking boat, very light weight. I think it could be modified to build a cat, but daggerboards are a necessity and even seastallion is installing one.

    Jetboy is dead on about prices and using old beach cats for parts. Also the weight thing, he just said it better than me :p:p ;)

    I am practically finished (sorting rigging) building my Woods Strike 18 and so far, im about $3900 into it, and I havent yet recut the main, bought an outboard and added a screecher. I had to buy a trailer ($600) because the trailer the cat came on was junk. Im not counting maintenance parts for trailer and other various things like tools because I would go insane.

    $900 for decent Narca 5.2
    $600 for a trailer and new tires
    11 sheet of ply @ $85/ea = $935
    $150 more or less in fir
    $550 for 4 gallons of epoxy/fillers/glass
    $200 for paint
    $600 in all hardware (beach cat parts, bolts, pad eyes, hatches, you name it)

    these are rough prices and I tend to overestimate, so I would say it ran me so far between $3400-$4000.

    just trying to help you be realistic. if you enjoy sailing and are not a vain a$$hole like me and aesthetics dont matter, strap some canoes together and go sailing.

    You said the W17 was too small, but take a look at Ray Kendricks slider cat.
     

  12. davidcarey35
    Joined: May 2015
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    davidcarey35 Junior Member

    2far2drive : I want a Tri not a cat . Old sailboats are not available ( where I want to build ) , nor are there any secondhand rigs , masts etc .
    I am not trying to be argumentative here , but I have clearly indicated Canoe type Tri / Double outrigger canoe ( not sure if there is a dividing line between the two ) . Look at the Phillippine Paraw ( they are beached , can take about five persons , and really narrow hull ), Marshalese canoes .
    Tremelinos , strikes and seaclippers will surely need the sort of sails / rigging that will not be available to me . A possibility may be a stub mast with a surf rig as I have seen on a wa apa .

    One question . Displacement empty refers to a fully rigged boat ? and displacement loaded (dwl ) is with crew and maximum displacement . This is regarding the object ( KIR 2 ) of my first post which is 220 kg / 515 kg .
     
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