Transom condition

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by tommyboy050, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    You haven't read what I said about countersinking through that rotten transom, have you yellowjacket ? Now, tell me with your structural design expertise where the problem is ?
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Show it to a pro who replaces transoms and you will likely get advised to replace your transom (substitute transom with just about anything in general, you are not overly expert in, for the same answer ), I don't think my idea is hair (sic) brained at all, but experience with the materials mentioned earlier would help a ton.
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yea, you're right Mr. Efficiency, everyone is using your over transom technique, it's so much prettier, easier and keeps the work to a minimum too.

    If you're that cynical of professional repair then why bother going outside your living room man.

    Lets see, the transom is 1.75 inches thick on that boat, lets add another 1.5 inches of material to it and expect the engine bracket to slide over it. Yea, you have a real grasp on stuff Mr. E. Oh, you'll notch the old hull for the new patch, there's a real classy way of handling it and fairing in the big new bump on the transom is just child's play right, not to mention the gel coat match. Oh please . . . BTW fairing costs more then any other single thing, so lets impose this on the boating newbie too.

    Not only will your "enlightened" method make the job twice as costly, it'll look like a cobbled together repair. This always helps with repeat business . . . You can do it right and keep clients for life or you can do it your way and never see them again.
     
  4. Yellowjacket
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    Yellowjacket Senior Member

    This is really simple. When you attach a second skin over the original skin, it isn't connected to the inner ribs that stiffen the transom locally for mounting the motor. The rotted wood doesn't provide that connection as it did when it was new. Consequently you have to bridge the entire span of the transom and to do that and to provide similar strength you have to add a huge amount of weight.

    It's a ton easier to operate on the inner surface of the transom, remove what is bad, replace it and properly fix it, replacing the ribs and other interior structure. Then you have the proper internal structure and can insure that the loads from the motor get into the hull in the same way as before.
     
  5. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    Aesthetics of appearance = resale value.
     
  6. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    If you just can't face removing some screws and taking the deck off and having to deal with unexpected problems in your boating life and learning exciting new skills, you should go back to cars or video games and being bored.
    Boats will kill you very quickly if you don't do things on their terms. The old adage of 'you can't ******** the ocean' never stops being true. Fix it right or stay off the water.
    A Texas oil field worker I knew had a big heavy (elderly and neglected) plywood 20' flat bottom skiff with a 20 hp motor. He bought a 50 horse Evinrude, brand new, clamped it on and started it up. Wow, this is cool. Off across the water we went, he opened the throttle wide and that 50 horses pushed the prop forward, which levered the transom top back, which pulled the rotten ply apart.... and the new expensive engine separated from the boat, taking the transom with it, and sank with a burbling hiss, and there we were in a boat with no transom. It was summer in a sheltered bay so we didn't die this time, luckily.
    When I was learning to be shipwright many many years ago I was told by someone large and in my face in a loud voice "Do the very best you can and it'll be barely good enough!".
    During my 4 years of USCG small-boat search and rescue in the 1960s I had to risk my life daily to help people who were "boat-stupid" as we used to say, and know that today's rescue services do the same.
    Being a beginner and ignorant is where we all start.
    Being unwilling to adapt to the most hostile environment on earth is not conducive to long safe life, and fixing your boat right is adapting yourself to something you don't want to do as the price of safe fun on your new boat.
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I am not familiar with U.S. built boats, but know a bit about the local product here, and be assured replacing transom ply from the inside is generally no small job. In fact, a not uncommon practice is to attack from the outside, not a minor procedure either. That involves cutting through the hull along a line close to the edges of the transom, peel off the laminate, dig out the old, in with the new ply, glass the peeled off panel back on, and glass over the well- feathered join line, then the cosmetics. Wouldn't touch that way either with a bargepole, for several reasons. Grinding and cutting old laminate should be avoided like the plague, IMO. I'll wager some of the people advocating the wisdom of it aren't involved in the actual W-O-R-K !!!_
     
  8. BATAAN
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    BATAAN Senior Member

    It doesn't have to be repaired the way it was built, but it does have to be done in a workmanlike way; meaning structurally sound, will last, and looks good enough the next buyer doesn't have a heart attack looking at the job.
    I spent 30 years in boat repair and am aware that w-o-r-k is involved, but then most things worth doing are like that. If you want a boat, you pay for it one way or the other.
    A hull and engine with a rotten transom is not a boat, it's a project, and pretending it's a boat is potentially suicidal self-deception.
    Work is required, either the owner or someone he hires, to return it to its former state of usability.
     
  9. Commuter Boats
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    Commuter Boats Commuter Boats

    I am involved in the work, I've illustrated the boat and the proper plywood replacement and if you look at the photos you'll also see that I reduced the unsupported square ( a very important consideration in designing hull structures ) with knees.
    So far all we've seen is a few blurry photos that don't prove anything about the condition of this vessel with an exception that the gelcoat is bad. All of photos provided are of the lower portion of the transom which is typically in compression and not the part of the transom where stress is usually first seen. The cracks are not parallel to the expected stresses and are on parts of the boat that are cored and some that are not. If photos could be provided that would reveal potential swelling at the stern eyes or part of the upper portion of the transom that is typically loaded in tension we might better guess how the structure is doing. The recommendation to have this evaluated by somebody competent is obviously the first thing to do.
    Mr. Efficiency... you've painted all professional mechanics with a broad brush of poor ethics, you shouldn't be surprised if some are less than polite with you...
    it's not possible in a few short paragraphs to educate the layman of the complex structure that is represented in this vessel. This boat was produced by one of the highest volume builders in the world that employees a powerful engineering staff whose job it is to not overbuild this company's products ( it's an entry-level product whose performance and price dictate sales) and maximize revenue for the company.
     
  10. tommyboy050
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    tommyboy050 Junior Member

    I will look to take better pictures tomorrow if I don't get called into work. I will use my digital camera this time instead of the camera on my phone. I will take a picture of the whole transom and parts of it. The whole transom seems pretty smooth and straight with no signs of swelling anywhere. I will try and take side view so you can see if this transom is straight etc. Thanks in advance.
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Remove one of the lower bracket bolts and stick your finger in the hole. This will likely tell you all you need to know.
     
  12. tommyboy050
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    tommyboy050 Junior Member

    When removing this lower bracket bolt, do you have to get at the other side to hold the nut from turning or are they secured into the transom. Boat is shrink wrapped now so it is not to easy to get inside the boat but I can get to the bracket bolts on the outside.
     
  13. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    It's a through bolt, so yes you have to have a wrench on both sides to break it free, plus it'll likely have a nylon insert nut, which will fight you the whole way off. Again, any reasonably skilled repair guy, that's done several transoms will quickly see what's going on, without having to remove the bolt, in most cases. Considering the age of this boat and how they are generally constructed, I have absolutely no doubt you have a shot transom core. I haven't even seen it, but I'm 90% certain, that's how common an issue this is Tommy. I know this isn't what you where hoping for, but it's the unfortunate reality of the situation, sorry.

    The thing is and what has me so pissed about everything, is the salesman knows damn right well the transom is shot and wants your money anyway. He's willing to bet you'll be too embarrassed to bring it back or admit you've been "taken for a ride", this is the used boat salesman's greed my friend. To them there's nothing more enjoyable then finding a boat off the auction block or wholesale lot and "flipping it" for 10 times what they paid for it. Of course they'll happily toss in a winter cover and free storage, they'll still make 9 times what they paid for it. You decide what you want to do, but the longer you wait, the less likely you'll get your 600 back. If it was me, I have a buddy that's an attorney and I'd just have him make a couple of phone calls to the dealership. This usually has them clamoring to return deposit funds.
     
  14. Stumble
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Tommy,

    As an attorney I can tell you that if you were my client I would hae you walking out of there with your $600 and an apology in about an hour.

    From what you describe you got taken in by a dishonest salesman that took advantage of your lack of knowledge to sell you a boat in need of major repairs. That to me is a violation of all sorts of implied warranty issues here in Louisiana, and likely where you live too.

    My advice is to back out of the deal, and ask for your money back because the boat has structual issues making it unsuited for its intended purpose. If the salesman won't refund your deposit then ask to speak to the manager and mention "the implied warranty of merchantability for a specific purpose" I can't tell you that your state laws are the same as those here in Louisiana (where I am certified), but it is a pretty common cunsumer warranty that requires a salesman or sales company to warranty a product for its intended purpose. In this case that is to be used as a boat, and not sink.

    It is likely that the owner, if not the salesman will sadly refund your deposit. They may also choose to repair the transom instead under the terms of the warranty, in which case I would ask for a 3rd party inspection of the now repaired work.
     

  15. tommyboy050
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    tommyboy050 Junior Member

    New clear pictures

    Here are some clear pictures taken with my digital camera.
     

    Attached Files:

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