Trading for profit ( to buy a boat)

[goodwilltoall]

It didnt keep losing value for twenty years. Gold quickly hit a peak, went down, and stayed at that level for about 15 years.

For those 15 years it continued to maintain purchasing power on par with the strong dollar, also increased GDP-which increased the supply of goods and products allowed the dollar/gold to maintain high values.

Today the scarcity you refer to is - bad money chasing good money. Unless the easy FED money policy is reversed, falling and excessive supplies of printed out of thin air federal reserve notes will be seeking stable, unmanipulated, diminishing gold supplies .

This is economics 101, anyone with unbiased knowledge can see whats coming.

 

[bntii]

It didnt keep losing value for twenty years. Gold quickly hit a peak, went down, and stayed at that level for about 15 years.

For those 15 years it continued to maintain purchasing power on par with the strong dollar, also increased GDP-which increased the supply of goods and products allowed the dollar/gold to maintain high values.

Today the scarcity you refer to is - bad money chasing good money. Unless the easy FED money policy is reversed, falling and excessive supplies of printed out of thin air federal reserve notes will be seeking stable, unmanipulated, diminishing gold supplies .

This is economics 101, anyone with unbiased knowledge can see whats coming.

Sure- gold is at a peak right now.
So why invest in it now to face how many years of decline?

"anyone can see what's coming"?

Why not tell us?


Gold is at ~$1700/oz
Buy as you say 20% of your portfolio- what return do you anticipate in 2, 5 and ten year windows?

A hedge against inflation?
So is land, copper, old violins and baseball cards.
I'm not impressed by GOLD.

 

[goodwilltoall]

Anticipated returns?

You should be asking yourself, What is likely to happen to the value of the dollar? There is a 99 year history of what the FED has done - what cost one cent in 1913 now costs one dollar - 99% deflation/loss (not inflation).

How will they payoff the acknowledged debts (probably hundreds of trillions off the books), especially when today the FED has to keep buying the bonds to fund the government (continued dollar depreciation) the US government can not afford the interest rates to go above 1%, FED buys 30% of the debt on the books and probably alot more through thier crony bankers.

No one in thier right mind is buying treasuries, this is all done through "facist" (priviliged businessses working handing in hand with government) institutions to maintain the illusion of stability while on the streets the real perception is beginning to take hold.

Gold backed the dollar and world trade prior to 1913, it took another 20 years to take it away from the people for daily use, and in 1971 it was taken away from settling debts between nations. The fiat dollar was built upon the back of gold, now after almost a hundred years most people still are unaware of whats been done to them but now governments, insiders, and other knowledgable people are beginning to realize you cant print your way into prosperity and NEED something stable.

This year gold was finally elevated to its rightful status by the Bank of International Settlements and the World Bank as 100%
value backing for thier assets valuations, prior to this it was discounted at 50%. Why do you think in years prior like in 2000 when gold was about $300.00 - on the books it was discount valued at $150? Now at $1,700.00 it has full value?

Why were the central banks prior to 2006 the largest sellers of gold, and now the largest buyers? Do you think the people that printed the paper money in your pocket right now, know something you dont?
Almost nothing is at a peak during inflationary times. Was Gold, Oil, Bread at a peak in 1920? 1930? 1980? 2000? 2010?
Do you think we will be pay less or more in 2,5, and ten years? We will see this advice vindicated in the coming years, What will you invest in?

Do you think this "fiscal cliff" garbage is really to settle the national debt? or to highjack more vanishing funds?

 

[bntii]

You do realize that the OP asked about "trading for profit"

If we take your assault against the dollar to the logical conclusion one could say that a good trade is being short the markets.

I wouldn't bet on that play in a broad sense.
One could also say one should enter those markets whose fortunes will ascend as the dollar fails.

But gold?
Again- why?
It just did what you accurately named from another period:

In a period of one year gold was the classical definition of an overinflated boom/bust asset. .

Except that you don't see any danger of the "bust"
Good for you- but be aware of the danger.


Do you see the US in collapse?- invest elsewhere.
For my money markets will continue to provide a profitable trading vehicle to any who can suss out general trends and the trajectory of companies within these.

Dollar failing and it's all going to hell?
Invest in a company making tee-shirts saying
"I used to love this place- what happened"

 

[goodwilltoall]

Other posters mentioned the brokered markets and decided to chime in.

Your markets havent provided profitable vehicles in over 15 years (be honest now), if so, you are one of the very, very, few who has profited. I have no beef with them as I never put money in those markets, just warning others.

Investing in gold is investing elsewhere. It all goes to hell quickly in the terminal stage, parasites kill thier host slowly.

Breaking it down leads to the inevitable, logical conclusion but, for me at least, its difficult to pinpoint the exact time period.

 

[bntii]

No problem Goodwill- I don't mean to pile on (even though I did).
I just find the rational for gold investing to be distasteful.

I do not see a eminent collapse-

In fact- I'm going to be starting that company selling tee-shirts in ebay.

"I used to like this place- what happened" *registered trademark*

-all funds used to purchase shovels to dig our way out-

 

[goodwilltoall]

As I said before, the free market is unstopable. Its works through free will exchange people have with one another. You have wars, drug gangs, manipulated markets, monopolies, as a result of trying to force others against thier free will. There is no eminent collapse until the very end. The only way you can help to get out of this mess is to be liberty minded.

Allow freedom of trade, property rights, free travel. People dont realize how many liberties they have lost as a result of trying to "limit others" and using force of "law" - "for the common good". Practice the Golden Law - stay out of matters that are not yours and practice these principles in all aspects, towards the single man or the whole world.

Otherwise, the trend/trajectory is going to continue downwards.

 

[rwatson]

.....
Plus the fact you are are not taxed on gold, nobody has access to it, no outrageous broker fees, and gold always at the very least keeps up with inflation; you have to say it the indispensible asset, hold at least 10-20%.
....

Boy, its obvious you have never traded in Gold.

"no outrageous broker fees"
Try checking the buy and sell price on your local dealer
eg todays price $1616 ~ $1583 - around 20%

http://www.adelaide-exchange.com.au/


Now, tell me where you are going to store it at home ?

Might be ok for a few little bars, but anything substantial has to be insured and stored securely. Check around for a price.

The taxman may not get it, but there are a few shady characters that will be very interested.

 

[michael pierzga]

You might do some research, but This looks like a good market sector to invest in.

http://www.amendment2.com/shop/centurion-tactical-vest-for-children/

 

[bntii]

As I said before, the free market is unstopable. Its works through free will exchange people have with one another. You have wars, drug gangs, manipulated markets, monopolies, as a result of trying to force others against thier free will. There is no eminent collapse until the very end. The only way you can help to get out of this mess is to be liberty minded.

Allow freedom of trade, property rights, free travel. People dont realize how many liberties they have lost as a result of trying to "limit others" and using force of "law" - "for the common good". Practice the Golden Law - stay out of matters that are not yours and practice these principles in all aspects, towards the single man or the whole world.

Otherwise, the trend/trajectory is going to continue downwards.

I suppose since frosty has abandoned his thread we can play...

Is the "trend continuing downward"?

I would say not but don't really have all the facts.
In the modern era, isn't health, shelter, general nutrition and freedom from instability on the rise?

Seems the obvious question to which I have no answer though this suggests things are going in the right direction:

"We know what we are, but know not what we may be."
William Shakespeare

 

[goodwilltoall]

What does democracy mean to you? Most people using that word today think that they will achieve the liberty of old America by spouting those types of words.

Up until WW2 the word democracy was frowned upon by most American statesmen and called the worst form of government (1920's Army field manual).

 

[El_Guero]

You do realize that the OP asked about "trading for profit"

If we take your assault against the dollar to the logical conclusion one could say that a good trade is being short the markets.

....

Is your first name George?

 

[El_Guero]

Bntii,

That is such a terrible chart.

Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao all considered their rise 'democratic.'

So do, Iran, Venezuela, the United States of America, Egypt, and Libya.

But, the last election had somewhere around 8 million votes cast in 6 or 7 states upon the encouragement of our one party machine (Chicago) here in the USA. The EXACT claim we layed against Venezuela, Cuba, and Iran when we have said they are not democratic.

Not only does that chart misrepresent democracy, but it also misrepresented war.

From 1950 until 1990, the USA and Russia waged a very intense pseudo-war called the cold war.

Under Clinton and then Bush Jr. the Cold War morphed into the War on Terror, and then into Obama's Arab Spring, which is going crazy in the 'name of democracy.'

Something like 200,000 people a year are dying in the 'name of democracy.' Not a very good time to be a democracy, unless you are China, or one of the other Asian, pseudo-democracies.

IMHO.

Further, your chart claims 2004, but it stops before 2000 .... Admittedly, George Bush ushered in a 'brief era of limited war,' but the Obama Administration has taken the gloves off when it comes to world wide warfare.

Volunteer at the hospital in Bethesda, it won't give you the picture that volunteering at Fort Sam would, but I don't expect you to pay that much of a price to learn the truth.

Democracy is a price America is paying, and everyone else who can, is enjoying.

 

[bntii]

Bntii,

That is such a terrible chart.

Sure- perhaps.

Is just the first thing I came across- care to post another re-the progression in governance or metrics of quality of life?

Perhaps you would prefer this one?:

http://www.dickdavis.com/2011/03/01/profiting-from-global-progress/

And world poverty rates:

 

[El_Guero]

How do you compare?

50% of American children grow up in poverty now, versus what 20% to 30% in 1960?

50% of our children are fatherless.

You can go to many 'bad countries' and you won't see their numbers being much worse than we are.

Divorce is the single worst thing to happen to America, followed by our 'freedom agenda,' and our false sense of financial security. I would add our lack of faith in God, but not everyone would see that as part of the problem.

So, which is a better quality of life? Most people outside of the USA would prefer family over 'democracy.' And since our votes no longer count for much more than our Constitution, do we really have a 'democracy?'

America has a few more good years left in her, but George is betting a lot of money against her right now, I would bet. And Barrack has no clue his friend is betting against him and US.

What can you do?

I would suggest two condos .... and maybe a good sail boat.

wayne