TP52s

Lets make an observation. When there is true anarchy as is the case in the US, (we are talking sailing now) there is no need for leadership. What is required are followers like Macgregor Yachts Mac26x owners and Barry Carrol. The flag of anarchy we fly is IRC.

Barry is for real. So am I and so are 5000 Mac26x owners who are ready to learn how internationally competitive sailing atheletes sail. We all know they do not sail as a TP52 is sailed. (Which is to put up a sail and keep it there until God takes it down - oh how lubberly is that!)

The TP52 represents the last of a way to long failed experimental period in sailboat design. These vessels and thier kind, (roughly called big boats) should appeal only to those who have already established a sailing style and do not wish to go through the considerable effort of unlearning those ways. Those ways and style are the ways and style portrayed by Francis F. Copala in God Father I and God Father II and the true God Father III, which goes by the name of Wind.

Do watch the film Wind again. Consider meeting Janet Baxter (president of US Sailing) at the Gorge. (columbia river onedesign) I am owed an I-14 ride.

Oh Tripp Gal was made to see that stored energy in the form of a winch is what caused her "defective" main to rip. She of all is not an IRC supporter and now blames her physician winch operator. Oh come on, every race boat operator marks the halyards. There was no mark for a reef. Such are the poor ways of the US Sailing keel boat trained. But Tripp Gal is blameless. She now credits a crew member, making him a johna, and she claims she would sail with her crew anywhere! See her ways as the ways being eliminated by IRC. Back to Sea Fair.

Frank L. Mighetto
SSSS Murrelet
1999 Mac26x out of Olympia WA
Sail # 79020

 

Tp 52's reef if neccasary. It is rarely neccasary. Ive seen a picture of a Mac26 reefed down when there were no whitecaps on the water.

 

That's not surprising at all (the Mac 26 reefing). It's a bloody motorboat!!!

 

Frank,
You F**king piece of S**t!!!!! I can't believe you honestly think you have a clue. This from a person who never races, and when they do, can't sail there way out of a paper bag. You do know that no one respects you as a sailor. I've told you never to bring me into any of your dilussional rantings. And you have done it again. Do the sailing world a service and crawl back into your hole.
God you make me feel dirty just to be in the same state as you.

 

Reemul,

You F**king piece of S**t!!!!! I can't believe you honestly think you have a clue.

Of course I do - it is on my Genoa

One great thing about SSSS is that shortly after joining, six years ago, a racer took me aside and told me that one of the greatest complements that could be paid to a sailor is for him or his ride to be called a POS (piece of S**t). This is what makes our club such a fun one. It doesn't eat its young. Instead it prepares them. Prepares them for those who would make the sport an epic battle of wills similar to what is portrayed in Copalas films. (GF1 GF2 and Wind)

Reemul, I take your post as a complement. My arch enemy Tripp Gal should pay attention and learn our ways. There will be no disrespect to others. If you do not agree with the person’s opinion, you are still expected to be open-minded and courteous to the other person while expressing a different view.

It was difficult for me to introduce myself to Tripp Gal and extend my hand which she shook last Friday. I even took my hat off in the "great hall". Perhaps she was taken advantage of and sold an old race hourse that the prior owner really knew should have been retired. I try to think this way to explain her behavior. Regardless,

As long as the big boats have folks willing to race them there should be venues appropriate for them (IE Windward Leeward). But no US Sailor new to the sport should be crewing them. This training is preventing the sport from flying as it does in other countries.

This from a person who never races, and when they do, can't sail there way out of a paper bag. You do know that no one respects you as a sailor.

Well I might disagree but then I made a "planned" docking on a log raft on the way to Tony's party on July 3rd. Lets chat a bit about the witness to that event. He has eyes that see much.

Recent postings on Sailing Anarchy by the new "rock star" at The Society who sales a Ranger 23 should have been openly discussed on SA. The notion that any past or present PHRF board member or rater can not be protested against because they will have supporters that they can call as false witnesses is more true than untrue. These false witnesses, later may be extended rating advantages. I have more to say.

It was clear from the re-rating of Balder that rating adjustments are not based on real evidence. John wasn't allowed to give his data to any on the review panel until 15 minutes prior to the hearing. Process is important, and that is not a process indicating anything clost to fair. The decison to allow the adjustment was made in a back room just like Enron, Exon, WordCom, Arther Andersen, and Microsoft would do. In other words as the land lubbers would do.

Tripp Gal's prominant position at PHRF-NW and orientation to big boats and the fact that she is a PHRF rater makes her a "goodfella", someone capable of orcestrating and willing to orchestate much harm to any who dare to speak out. Her days and that style of sailing ended in Seattle with the exposure during the last Americas Cup about improprieties in boat design. CYC Seattle can not recover from that. Everyone knows this in Seattle, if you want competitive racing you can not do so there under PHRF. You must instead find another club. Barry Carrol and his supporters were absolutely thrilled that anyone from South Sound Sailing Society came to chat with him. SSSS represents a bright spot in sailing for the nation really. We need to guard against those of Tripp Gal mind set that would wish to drag us into the gutter politics they have come to view as part of the race game.

I've told you never to bring me into any of your dilussional rantings. And you have done it again Do the sailing world a service and crawl back into your hole. God you make me feel dirty just to be in the same state as you.

If you feel dirty then perhaps you are on the road to recovery. I have felt dirty since the last Americas Cup. It really pained me to see Paul Allen's reputation wrapped up in that. Thank God that Larry Ellison is building his next AC boats in Skagit Valley. Oh, the CYC folks pointed out that PHRF-NW could be worse; Bill Gates could be involved. The greatest thing about this sport is that he is not. We plan on racing the Secretary Series. That is my series you know.

 

The great thing about the club is that we voted your *ss out of office. And the reason is totally because you do not know when to keep your mouth shut. And thats the last I'll say on the matter.

 

There were three and possibly four attempts to do that all traced to Tripp Gal. The Society requires that before the Board can vote to remove a member there first must be a petition from the Membership. 20 percent of the members are required to sign the petition before any Board Member can even discuss the matter. One thing that is unusual about South Sound Sailing Society is that every member is a steward of the club. We all are authorized to represent it as we see fit. You do not need to be an officer or commitee member to do so.

The first attempt that I was aware of happened at an unusual Monday board meeting while my wife and I were sailing the Galapagos Islands in January. It failed as have all subsequent efforts, each one becoming less and less effective to the point now that I believe there is no longer a battle of wills.

I had embarrased Tripp Gal on Sailing Anarchy where she had started The Future of Yacht Design thread, calling attention to a web site I maintain. The web site unwound so many carefully spun myths that it had become damaging to the "big boat" or big toy style of behavior being objected to.

We just have a great club that isn't willing to let outside influences - even from PHRF board members (yes one was involved big time) and raters like Tripp Gal, disuade us. The battle is really between PHRF and IRC, or fixed fin keel and movable ballast, take your pick, and it is a stupid battle because both can work so well together. The Block Island race was one of the largest in recent history because IRC was made an alternate scoring mechanism.

These battles really have roots in boat design. PHRF and IRC are two rating mechanisms that are difficult to design to because the ratings are changed as the designs prove themselves. PHRF is the weaker of the two becuase it can be controlled regonally, and perhaps nationally by "subjective" factors, which in the context of your postings is a kind way of saying bribe or threat. The threat of being kicked out of a club and the bribe of a higher rating.

IRC ratings are applied by a world authority and in only two spots in the world. It is PHRF with less or none of the subjective factor. I speculate that the ratings are based on VPP, like Carrol does, but that there is an AI (artificial inteligence) component to it. In AI, it is possible to induce rules for rating vessels from a variety of factors, like hull shape, foils, sails, rigging, race day conditions, crew experience, and who won .

Barry Carrol hopes for amature designers like myself to become measurers for IRC. Currently there are only 80 nation wide. There is training involved, and it would be a lot of work but what a great opportunity for someone wanting to be a professional boat designer or influencer.

I will now make a prediction. The more and more races where both IRC and PHRF are used the better for both. TP52 owners can use IRC to justify a protest on the rating under PHRF. Perhaps PHRF ratings are already used by the program used to rate under IRC.

 

You aren't on the board next year are you? That should tell you something. It's usally automatic if you want a second term that you get it. You wern't even asked.

 

That vote doesn't take place until the June of 2006. You are a bit ahead of your self. But lets do let it go. Rule 14 is in play.

 

Not at all automatic. It is required for the office of Secretary. Dig up your May 2004 S-t-S. Things are not as you may see them. But have no worries, I do not intend to make waves. I intend to win a few races in my POS and advance IRC this year. Again rule 14 applies. Lets not make it rule 69. Huzzah Huzzah.

 

It seems to me that you keep on making the same spelling mistake over and over - it should be "immature designer", shouldn't it?

Anyway - if you really are a designer, then show us some of your work! You've been asked that a number of times but we haven't seen anything yet! If you haven't designed anything, then you're NOT a designer - it's as simple as that!

 

sorenfdk

Anyway - if you really are a designer, then show us some of your work!

AFAIK this is the first time I have been asked. It is amature designer. Ever hear of a Bonny II? My version might quailify. That would have been oh 36 years ago. I assume only sailboats qualify. Hardly relevant today. She was partially built when I finished her. Had a hard time with turnbuckles which disappeared from the yard at the Berkelely marina when I left the boat on the hard for more than a few days at a time. Plywood, like a Thunderbird. Real Sailboats are built of wood you know Most of the innovations still come from vessels built in wood. It is the reason the center for wooden boats in Seattle and the Port Townsen wooden boat event are so important to sailors.

You've been asked that a number of times but we haven't seen anything yet!

Lets discuss the concepts. In the US, all that is needed to be a sailboat designer is a shingle and a business license. This is why so many racers who no longer can do, do sailboat design. (IE Melges - ok ice boats do qualify kind of) Consider me a licensed sailboat designer if you need to. I certainly can run the math and know (or did know) LISP.

Sorenfdk, we of Puget Sound just finished with an air show for amature flyers. The most popular craft is a kit that when complete weighs all of 1,000 lbs. This kit is popular because so many in the area are Boeing aircraft engineers who know how to evaluate kits and select the best one to meet their needs. The planes have a range of only 250 miles. Perhaps I should modify my mantra.

It is best to first be an aircraft pilot before getting into sailing. Bethewaite has shown us that. I have that background. Boeing is one of the reasons so much is happening with sailboat design and building in Puget Sound.

 

EVERYONE JUST SHUT IT! THINK WHAT YOU LIKE. Mig, PLEASE just define WHY the TP is worse than the Mac, despite the fact that most of us, including myself, disagree with you.

 

Sigh,


From the Best of Mighetto

What are the top ten names for a TP52. Here is an improved draft:

10. Owner's on Crack (he thinks his boat is Trans Pacific Worthy)

09. DWB 0r DGB - Designer Went Bankrupt (the concept boat for the TP52 was the SC52; DGB - Designer Going Bankrupt (IMC is dead; only fools think otherwise. Farr International Is no more.)

08. TBP - the name of the TP52 is To Be Provided as per the official owners site hyping them. (I am sticking to the 20 TP52s by the end of the year prediction)

07. Heels-A-Lot (the boat takes advantage of a loop hole in box rules that way. You will never make a good cruiser out of these babes. Hence they have little value when retired from racing.)

06. Hulls-A-Changing (the TP52 box rules favor lightly constructed hulls that after a hard race may not measure the same ever again)

05. MacAttact (see the starting post to this thread. and recently above. The 1/2 sized TP52s directly compete against the Mac26x as ocean race trainers.)

04. Numbers Lie (see discusion on capsize ratio sister ship is Owner's on Crack)

03. BraveHeart - damn I would pay money to board her. Great Name. BraveHeart, however had a MOB during the Swiftsure. That story is more enlightening than the story of Tripp Gals boat. The crew member had no life jacket and was missing for 5 or so minutes before someone noticed and BraveHeart was reversed to find him by following the GPS course line. This is the kind of thing that gets an owner banned from the sport under rule 69 but is apparently normal on a TP52. Probably that heel has folks slipping off all the time

02. Gimcrack - useless thing

01. TesticleOne damn she? is sexy. There has been no proof that a bulb is faster than alturnatives. In fact the designer Brewer today, and after experments 20 years earlier, still thinks they are foolish.

Mostly The TP52 boats are worse than a Mac26x because they were designed and built ignoring modifications of Rules 51 and 52 which allow movable ballast and stored energy.

These rules were the rules the Mac26x was designed to and the modified rules were so modified for the Future of Yacht Design.

I object mostly to TP52s being called TransPacific because the first generation of them were built for Atlantic waters and the most recent generation are built for the Med.

I was also distressed to discover that the capsize risk ratio failed the early generation TP52s in defining them as ocean worthy. No reputable designer or broker will classify such a monohull as ocean going with that ratio above 2. Farr has since corrected to that ratio.

My other objection involves the Rise of the American Sailor. I see the Mac26x as a race trainer, a vessel where new sailors will learn how to be competitive on an International basis. I view the TP52s as more of the failed experimental design that lead to ISAF modifying rules 51 and 52 over seven years ago.

The continuation with the TP52 development program even after those rule modifications and attempts to justify limit of positive stability mathimatical ratios as a requirement to the GP Rule Working Party failed comes to close to fraud for me. I suspect the financial risk of the TP52 was to have been reduced by creating a market for them after they had been retired by their owners. That market was to have been in my back yard. San Franciso, San Diego and Puget Sound. The West Coast of the USA was marked as a dumping ground for these vessels, is my conclusion.

What is to like about them?

 

"I object mostly to TP52s being called TransPacific because the first generation of them were built for Atlantic waters and the most recent generation are built for the Med." What does that have to do with anything. MIsnomers are not that terrible.