TP52s

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by mighetto, Nov 1, 2004.

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  1. mighetto
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    mighetto New Member

    Love you as well bright angle.

    A review. It was a dumb *** that saved several in the Grand Canyon. Its name was Bright Angle and today there is a trail honoring the dumb ***. For several years a sailboat called Bright Angle was moored near Murrelet on J Dock near where the Kiss Me Arse syndicate was started by the French Man. Kiss Me Arse is the common name of the bird called Murrelet. I post today with sadness regarding the Virgina Tech 32. We have chatted directly with the 4 individuals that my wife considers friends at VT. I try not to be angry and again find sailing to be my salvation.

    Lets keep the thread mostly on TP52s and less so on Macgregors, though I suppose I can comment mostly in comparing to MacGregors and as all should know by now it was a court case where vested interests in TP52s believed a win would be valuable in promoting the failed experiment in fixed fin bulb keel design known by almost every power boater in the USA as the big "and stupid" boats. And known by knowledgeable sailers as ships for fools.

    The Great Corporation Sailing Anarchy is even coming around. Please Review the following URL. I have long believed that Roger MacGregor took design Ideas from the Minis (We call them Mini-Transats in the USA) in his power sailer designs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp5i2EfXPTo

    Frank L. Mighetto
    US Sailing
    SSSS
     
  2. Shife
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    Shife Anarchist

    I find it amusing that Frank embraces Mini 6.50s, yet despises TP52s.

    Frank: You state that boats carrying fixed fins with bulbs are "ships for fools".

    Have you ever seen the keel on a Mini 6.50?

    Here's a pic for you. This is a sliding canter, but many of the fixed Minis use a similar T-bulb style:
     

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  3. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    I suspect Frank embraces the Minis because they're small enough, cramped enough and carry a small enough crew that he can relate to them more easily. He does drive an inshore trailer-sailer, after all. Much easier to make the psychological jump between a 26-footer designed for a couple to a 6.50 designed for one (maybe two) people, than to make the jump to a yacht eight times larger than his own and that carries eight times as many crew.
     
  4. ALowell
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    ALowell Junior Member

    I think Frank's rhetoric is suffering from his comparisons of the Mac26x to larger racing yachts. These concepts do not scale that easily. Moreover, the cost of water ballast systems and canting mechanisms go up with the cube of the vessel size. If Frank wants to pony up the money for a canting, sliding, water ballasting rocketship then he is more than welcome.

    ~ ALowell
     
  5. Shife
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    Shife Anarchist

    Frank already owns such a vessel. Self described as having a "automatic gybing centerboard", "movable ballast", and a hullform that "emulates a multihull".

    What amuses me is that Frank is fully aware of the fact that a Mini 6.50 is far more akin to TP52 than a Mac26, yet he's too emotionally insecure to admit it.

    Countless amateurs and professionals have gone to great lengths for the past few years to help him see why his ideas are false. His refusal to accept the truth is evidence of either severe mental instability, or the calling card of a eccentric hoax. Those who have met him generally agree with the former.

    Taking him seriously is a exercise in futility. He provides nothing more than bizarre entertainment. A brief laugh during the workday. Sadly, when the moderators here finally tire of his strange behavior, he'll move on to the next site that will tolerate him. Just as has happened several times previous to his landing here at BoatDesign.
     
  6. mighetto
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    mighetto New Member

    Nonesense.

    But lets do pay attention

    http://www.americascupanywhere.com/internet_tv

    If you watch the clips (firefox requires refreshing) you will note the silliness of a belief that a 20 ton hull's form can be modified by hydraulics after measurements and between races. That is main stream. By comparison I am Mr. Rational.

    BMW Oracle now in charge. Its a great day to be an American. The US press had better cover this story about now. Significant with this years AC/LV is that the AC boats are not designed to be sailed in less than 7 knots wind. Think about that and designs that do well in less than 7 knots. Few interested in the sport will be interested in rounded hull forms that do well in less than 7 knots. after researching this years ACC. Sailing in those conditions is futile. See this and get a ride like mine. Be Like Frank! Lift your Scullers IPA. Be proud of the hulls built in Washington State for Larry. 1, 2, 3 MacGreggor!

    Frank L. Mighetto
    Mr. Rational in Comparison
    I suppose you first have to have been a power boater to see truth.
    By definition all sailboat designers are amatures. Has this not already been established? Is a review needed?
     
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  7. sailsmall
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    sailsmall Senior Member

    A review! That's a great idea. A restatement of the founding principles of this thread. Why are we all here, after all? Who better but you Frank.
     
  8. member 10795
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    member 10795 Sensei

    A review? Here's a short one:

    Frank's a crank.

    End of review.
     
  9. sailsmall
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    sailsmall Senior Member

    The TP52 class, well documented in these pages as thoroughly inadequate in both concept and execution, seems, astonishingly, to be conducting a highly successful circuit in the Mediterranean Sea and Portugal. The list of otherwise respectable and accomplished sailors, including the heads of the royal families of two European countries, who have succumbed to the slick marketing campaign emanating from the degenerate East Coast sailing establishment is truly remarkable. Not long ago, Frank predicted there would be fewer than 20 registered TP52s worldwide and that their numbers would decline from there. Yet in the first event of this year's Med Cup circuit alone there would appear (if the event web site is to be believed) to be 25 boats competing. It is a sad commentary on the sport of sailing that, as we debate the virtues of foils, ACC rules, etc., the impact of these monstrosities continues to overwhelm the senses of the righteous and embarrass those of us who remain true to the founding principles of Yachting.
     
  10. Mark 42
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    Mark 42 Senior Member

    Sorta, but every once in awhile you have to kick the victims to see
    if they are still alive enough to writhe & moan at the pain. :p
     
  11. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    But no Mighetto since April 25? After a month and a half of nothing I was starting to wonder if this little thread had just slipped away....
     
  12. Mark 42
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    Mark 42 Senior Member

    Kick it again & see if it moves.
    Now poke it in the eye & see if it tries to blink...
     
  13. mighetto
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    mighetto New Member

    Argh, truth. Both eyes have been poked. First BMW/Oracle and now Luna Rossa. But we did get one interview with Johnathan McKay. Sigh. But do not worry to much. I have much to say about TP52s. So we can forget about all that eye smarting until June 28th. Go New Zealand.

    Lets amuse ourselves at the expense of the TP52s. The main point today is a prediction. Those in the USA who are new to sailing, say young potentials now training on a TP52, who come from west coast schools, say Stanford, and know of boat design.net, will and have read Bethwaite by now.

    Second and soon, they will be calculating the capsize risk ratio of their TP52 training vessel and start asking questions like we have asked on this thread.

    IE wouldn't some other boat be better for Trans Pacific work - like say even a movable water ballasted MacGregor?

    Frank L. Mighetto
    US Sailing, SSSS
     
  14. Mark 42
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    Mark 42 Senior Member

    Removable is not movable.

    How many TP52's have had to be abandoned?

    How many Volvo 70's (and other movable ballast boats)?

    What happens if you get caught with the ballast on the wrong side of the boat?

    A TP52 has move movable ballast than a M26, based on any criteria
    you want to use (ratio to length, displacement, or any other way).
     

  15. 101
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    101 Junior Member

    In case I'm looking to buy a MacG for the singlehanded transpac, what are the stability numbers for the MacG with water ballast and without water ballast? Perhaps I'm wrong but I think a capsize measurement for water systems include a number when the "moveable ballast" is in the worst position.

    Thanks
     
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