TP52s

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by mighetto, Nov 1, 2004.

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  1. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Probably TP52 ratios have already been discussed before, in such a long thread, but anyhow for whatever may be of use, here some estimatives I've done, considering the boat with full crew and 800 kg equipment/consumes (If somebody has better data about whatever, it would be great for me to know). Some of these numbers have no full sense by themselves alone, but to make comparatives with other boats.

    Lh = 15,85 m
    Lwl = 14,83 m
    Bmax = 4,3 m
    Bwl = 3,87 m
    Draught = 3,19 m
    HD = 0,4 m
    Disp = 9789 kg
    Ballast = 4000 kg
    Sail area = 152,5 m2
    Heeling Arm = 11,89 m

    Ballast/Disp Ratio W/Disp = 0,41
    Displacement/Length Ratio D/L = 83,65
    Sail Area/Disp. Ratio SA/D = 33,86
    Hull speed HSPD = 9,35 Kn
    Potential Maximum Speed PMS = 12,73 Kn
    Velocity Ratio VR = 1,36
    Capsize Safety Factor CSF = 2,03
    Motion Comfort Ratio MCR = 19,63
    Angle of Vanishing Stability AVS = 115 º
    Heft Ratio HF = 0,65
    Roll Period T = 2,21 Sec
    Roll Acceleration Acc = 0,24 G's
    Stability Index SI = 0,51 (Comfort: 1 – 1,1)

    Righting Arm 20º RA20 = 0,68 M
    Righting Arm 30º RA30 = 0,91 M
    Righting Arm 10º RA10 = 0,37 M
    Initial Metacentric height GMo = 2,14 M

    Upright Heeling Moment UHM = 64019,97 Ft*pound
    Heeling Moment at 1º HM1º = 2646,37 Ft*pound
    Dellenbaugh Angle DA = 24,19
     
  2. TP 52 Defender
    Joined: Dec 2004
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    TP 52 Defender Actual Sailor

    A few answers for Frank:

    As to my name, a few here know me - but to give it out on the net is to invite trouble (stalkers et al - which you have shown a certain propensity for Frank). Your knowledge and analysis with regard to sailing is some what lacking perhaps you should listen to those who have tried to help you (but are now simply morbidly curious to see what you will say next, me included). You still need to apologize for your lies earlier in this thread (no I will not go back and find them all and re-post them you know what they are, however if you would like to do it by PM that is fine).

    The point about the horse was simple but I’ll clear it up some more. You have a boat and you attempt to race it. However it might be a good idea not to race it against a boat designed to race.

    Minimun LOA in the Transpac Race is 30 feet. In 2007 no radio check-ins will be required (Sat Comm and Sat trac will be used, the 2005 Trans Pac was the last race to use "old" tech for check-ins).

    The only TP 26 is a Tripp 26 – the rest is vapor ware. A Mac 26 is incapable of competing against a Trip 26 in the same class under PHRF or IRC (not in the same rating bands)

    The reason for this thread is your obsession with toys you many never own and certainly are not capable of sailing (as has be proven by your posts).

    Gen 1 – 7 of TP 52 are sold as ocean race boats but since they are custom yachts they are not sold by dealers. While Gen 1 – 4 shifted the balance from distance racer to a 50 / 50 and each successive generation (5 – 7+) have shifted more towards buoys racers they are all still capable of racing in the open ocean and in fact ocean crossings.

    As to TP 52's in ocean racing: (Notes added for clarity)
    2005 Trans Pac Race - Final results
    Division II (Started July 17)
    Rosebud (Transpac 52), Roger Sturgeon, San Francisco (55:39:59), ET 8:16:25:04, CT 6:08:45:05. (Note: Generation 2)
    Pegasus 52 (Transpac 52), Philippe Kahn, Honolulu (51:49:29), ET 8:13:14:13, CT 6:09:24:44. (Note: Generation 5)
    Trader (Transpac 52), Fred Detwiler, Pompano Beach, Fla. (52:18:39), ET 8:17:07:25, CT 6:13:48:46. (Note: Generation 5)
    Coruba (N/M 68), Rob and Suzanne Fleming, Seattle (57:52:37), ET 9:00:23:25, CT 6:14:30:48.
    Skylark (S/C 70), Doug Ayres, Newport Beach (52:18:53), ET 8:20:02:07, CT 6:15:43:14.
    Medicine Man (Andrews 61), Bob Lane, Long Beach (45:59:58), ET 8:13:49:45, CT 6:15:49:47.
    Mongoose (Santa Cruz 70), Bradley Thorson, Bellevue, Wash. (57:38:37), ET 9:02:36:13, CT 6:16:57:36.
    Ragtime (Spencer 66), Peterson/Richards/Welsh, Honolulu (69:08:37), ET 9:16:10:58, CT 6:19:02:21.
    Braveheart (Transpac 52), Charles Burnet, Seattle (55:23:53), ET 9:03:00:21, CT 6:19:36:28.
    Merlin (Lee 68), Patricia Steele, Maui, H.I. (41:54:03), ET 8:23:26:33, CT 7:05:32:30.
    Bengal 2 (Ohashi 52), Yoshihiko Murase, Nagoya, Japan (64:07:15), ET 10:08:54:39, CT 7:16:47:24.
    Renegade (Andrews 70), Dan Sinclair, Vancouver, B.C. (40:03:46), ET 9:09:45:26, CT 7:17:41:40.
    Pendragon IV (Davidson 52), John MacLaurin, Encino, Calif. (65:20:10), RETIRED. (Note: Precurser to the TP 52 design)

    It would seem they can and have crossed ocean and won, 1,2,3 in the above race (other examples would be Pinaple cup, Annapolis to Newport and several other races). Also note that Trader was reinstated to 3rd (Frank likes to lie about them cheating)

    Minimun LOA in the Transpac Race is 30 feet. So a Mac 26 as I stated earlier can NOT race in the Transpac.
    In the West Marine Pacific Cup the Min LOA is 24 ft. In Fact a Moore 24 did the race in a little over 15 days (Double Handed). The West Marine Pacific Cup is billed as the "Fun" race and attracts a limmited number GP race boats (The TP 52's all race in the Trans Pac)

    A Mac 26 does NOT (once again) have movable ballast. Movable ballast as it is referred to in racing sailboats is able to be moved from side to side to counteract heel and improve righting moment. A Mac 26 is only able to take on or remove ballast much like the tall ships of old. These are not the same - under your rules a TP 52 has movable ballast also (many of the TP 52's have galleries in the bulb to change their ballst packages, however they must remeasure under class rules).

    Mr Kahn while enjoying his 2 years on the TP 52 felt the boat was a little to small for him on distance races (which he loves to do). This was one of his primary reasons for leaving the class according to many of his crew.

    Many people on the East Coast do in fact surf. Furthermore your lack of understanding about us sailors world wide is only surpassed by you lack of understanding about sailing itself. If you have issue with the governing body – get involved and volunteer.

    Glory is a TP 52 – pure and simple. While there are several simple mod that can be done to make them better under IRC I do not believe any are planed right now, I’ll ask their captain when I see him next. To see how well the TP 52’s did in IRC simply look at Bright Star, Patches (who did make 1 keel “Z” change), Trader, Sjambok or Rush.
     
  3. spank
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    spank Junior Member

    Frank....it is good that you are proud of your statements. I think you should be more proud of the fact that you are a true legend of the internet my friend. Few people on earth could spawn a thread a keep it going. You the man!
     
  4. Mark 42
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    Mark 42 Senior Member

    Is movable ballast even legal for PHRF?

    I'm not sure, but I thought movable ballast was not allowed in PHRF racing :?:

    That means tha the M26 would not be legal.

    Though I also seem to remember something like swing keels,
    center boards, etc. are required to remain in the down position.

    And in Puget Sound they even have PHRF ratings for multihulls, so
    thinks have changed since I was just a kid and spent time reading
    rules in great detail.
     
  5. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    Initially I thought he was a troll. How could anybody be that weird, ignorant, annoying? Well guess what---it lives!

    You think he is fooling around...in fact he caused much trouble for many.

    He is not "the man" ...he is a bully, a charlatan and he wishes to lead the ignorant to their deaths on the water while he watches from the beach.
     
  6. spank
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    spank Junior Member

    Awww cmon DGreenwood. Anybody who is lead to their death as a result of listening to Frank probably deserves what they have coming to them to some degree. I don' think he's fooling around at all, and that is precisley what makes this thread and the previous ones at Sailing Anarchy and elseware so insane.




    " Initially I thought he was a troll. How could anybody be that weird, ignorant, annoying? Well guess what---it lives!

    You think he is fooling around...in fact he caused much trouble for many.

    He is not "the man" ...he is a bully, a charlatan and he wishes to lead the ignorant to their deaths on the water while he watches from the beach.
    Today 12:26 PM"
     
  7. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    No one deserves to be injured because they encounter and follow a charlatan like Frank before they are informed enough to recognise his B.S. To the untrained and wishful, he sounds plausable. Telling people they could cross an ocean in a Mac 26 is dangerous.
    No one thought Jim Jones was dangerous... did they?


    I have nightmares that this guy could end up a SeaScout leader.
    That would take the humour out of all this, wouldn't it?

    It seems that being banned and threatened with lawsuits is the only thing that will stop him. There are quite a few in his part of the world that can confirm this.
     
  8. Mark 42
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    Mark 42 Senior Member

    That's part of the reason we make fun of him is to protect newcomers who might
    think him knowledgable and see advice from him, possibly in an offline private message
    where no one can rebut misinformation.

    It could cost someone a lot of money, a lot of frustration, and even potentially could
    result in injury or death.

    More than once he has said that speed is safety, and with a fast boat one need not
    be as concerned about preparation because if the weather turns foul the fast can
    turn tail and run to safety.

    Bad advice... possibly deadly advice.
     
  9. frankofile
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    frankofile Junior Member

    In a less than ringing endorsement of Frank's opinion regarding the TP52, Seahorse has given Sailor of the Month to Ian Walker based partially on his successes in that class.

    Maybe they are toying with you Frank. After all, the UK is even further east than the despised East Coast of the US!
     
  10. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    And now numbers for the MacGregor 26:

    Displacement /Length Ratio D/L = 138,71
    Sail Area /Disp. Ratio SA/D = 19,59
    Power / Disp. Ratio HP/D = 13
    Hull speed HSPD = 6,45 Kn
    Potential Maximum Speed PMS = 7,68 Kn
    Velocity Ratio VR = 1,19
    Capsize Safety Factor CSF = 1,98
    Motion Comfort Ratio MCR = 16,19
    Angle of Vanishing Stability AVS = 122 º
    Roll Period T = 1,76 Sec
    Roll Acceleration Acc = 0,16 G's
    Stability Index SI = 0,75

    (Fully loaded, 4 crew, 50 HP engine)

    ;)
     
  11. Crag Cay
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    Crag Cay Senior Member

    "...After all, the UK is even further east...."

    We are not further east (or west) of anywhere, thank you very much. We are bang in the middle!

    We have an East and West coast, because their longitude is indeed east and west of Greenwich, except the bit of the east coast up north that does wander a bit to the west, but that's the exception that proves the rule. Perhaps your east coast should be called the 'less west coast'.

    (I post this drivel in this thread as it seems to be the home of the twisted reality.)

    etc, etc ....
     
  12. Mark 42
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    Mark 42 Senior Member

  13. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    Hey you guys...east, as used in the origainal statement, is a direction relative to any given location. East is east on a compass no matter where you are on the globe. In this case he stated the UK is east of the eastern most coast of the US. Well it is also west of that coast but in most conversations it is assummed you are talking about the shortest distance around our globe.
     
  14. Crag Cay
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    Crag Cay Senior Member

    ".......East is east on a compass no matter where you are on the globe...."

    Yes I know, but I thought the idea of this thread was just to write complete nonsence, so that was my illogical, misinformed, completely twisted contribution.
     

  15. DGreenwood
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    DGreenwood Senior Member

    Oh...sorry I forgot myself for a moment.
     
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