TP52s

[marshmat]

Try reading post # 1 of this thread.... might give some insight into just what on earth is going on here....
then again, maybe it won't.

 

[Saf]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ah ah ha ha ha

 

[Mark 42]

Sailing?
When you have a huge outboard motor, what does sailing matter?

 

[frankofile]

Sails come in handy if you break down, or run out of gas , and can't get a rescue boat to come out and tow you back to the dock.

 

[Saf]

Mark42! Mark42! Mark42!

Really got me shocked with your answer!
I expected more than that from you my dear but anyway guess that's how things are going!

I get it you are a motor man! That's ok! I totally understand honey

But I get the feeling that one day people will have to go back to the good old sail boats and kiss goodbye the golden days or whatever you want to call the motorboats thingy time/days/years..!

I think we can all see that the number of sailboats is growing bigger and bigger every year which means people are getting bored of motorboats!

Sorry my friend but it's a fact!

Saf

________
Love racing! Running in my blood the racing course!! I'm scared!! Mom help me

 

[stevel]

SAF you may want to reread the thread

Mark is referring the the big motor on Frank's boat. If you keep responding to this thread without understanding the history, you will probably embarrass yourself. It really is an "entertainment only" thread (even if Frank didn't intend it to be.)

 

[Mark 42]

Mark42! Mark42! Mark42!

Really got me shocked with your answer!
I expected more than that from you my dear but anyway guess that's how things are going!

I get it you are a motor man! That's ok! I totally understand honey

See the attached picture.

I like power boats for water skiing and a couple of other purposes, but I have been
sailing too long to break the addiction.
(look for Mark 42 on Sailinganarchy.com to see history/posts... nothing recent since I gave up racing for awhile.)

 

[Saf]

sorry mate!

 

[Mark 42]

No harm.
I've been called worse...
maybe not much worse though

 

[mighetto]

Mark is referring the the big motor on Frank's boat. If you keep responding to this thread without understanding the history, you will probably embarrass yourself. It really is an "entertainment only" thread (even if Frank didn't intend it to be.)

Steve knows well, owing to his Ventura home port. The standing joke about my race trainer Murrelet goes as follows. Which one of the crew lifts that big outboard from the water? The answer of course is that it takes more than one person.

Near Ventura, Costa Mesa, in particular, or north of there, Monterey perhaps, but in anycase near where the Santa Cruise 52 was conceived, they invented modern surfing. The application of fiberglass to boat design began with surf boards and in short time it was known that you need your foils aft as well as the weight of the rider. The same is true with sailboats that surf - which when doing so for more than a few minutes are said to plane.

The TP52s are objectionable to most real sailors on the West Coast because they attempt to take what is planning sailboat design and apply the failed fixed bulb fin experiment to them.

The TP52s, like the 12 meters, are little more than amusement rides. Those on our cruise liners will find them an attractive shore attraction, but they do not really fly in the modern sense and a novice should not put such an experience on his or her sailing resume, because it marks them as not only novice but also a fool. They lumber at mostly hull speed, and this after millions spent on them.

The lead mine at the end of the TP52 is the wrong place for the weight and in addition it provides only one purpose, where everything on a sail boat should have at least two. To the credit of the TP52 designers they are required to have an engine auxiliary but unfortunately and most assuredly from a hull design standpoint the motor must be an inboard, and this compromizes them greatly.

Every basic design book will demonstrate that the inboard engine dictates the kind of buttocks. There has to be lift in the buttocks to provide an arse hole for the shaft and then there has to be room for the prop. In every way the design is literally screwed.

My vessel has the weight were it belongs for a modern design and it provides more than one purpose -auxiliary power and stability providing ballast.

The power is auxiliary because these race trainers can not store enough fuel for passage making. Compare with the very real efforts of designers to keep the iron genny auxiliary by purposefully mounting motors that rarely can get the sailboat to hull speed. The idea there is that if the wind is blowing enough to carry the boat to hull speed under sail then the owner should be sailing not motoring. Hence the designer has engineered for the human rather than eliminating compromise. He wants the owner to sail and knows that for speed reasons that will happen at least sometimes if the motor is wimpy.

I tell you these design secrets to save young US potentials. We intend to be champions and not the chumps that think TP52s cool.

Frank L. Mighetto
South Sound Sailing Society
where the status quo has been blown

 

[mholguin]

This guy is right.

MAc 26 trained sailors have won Olmpyc games, America's Cup, Frank won the Antigua race, ... How many Transpacs have been won by Mac 26?? I lost count already..

Not to forget uncoutable corssings of Cape horn, singlehndled...

And he shown (and we must all reckon this) tremendous courage to reveal to the public the secrets behind inboards and their ill effect in hull form... Now I'm sure his risking his live, as engine manufacturers will go after him trying to silence.

For once in my life, I would like to drink what ever it is he drinks....

 

[mighetto]

This guy is right.

MAc 26 trained sailors have won Olmpyc games, America's Cup, Frank won the Antigua race, ... How many Transpacs have been won by Mac 26?? I lost count already..

Not to forget uncoutable corssings of Cape horn, singlehndled...

And he shown (and we must all reckon this) tremendous courage to reveal to the public the secrets behind inboards and their ill effect in hull form... Now I'm sure his risking his live, as engine manufacturers will go after him trying to silence.

For once in my life, I would like to drink what ever it is he drinks....

The Mac26x boat is right. TP52s are wrong. The Mac26x wins the award for most production in a 7 year time frame. 5000 plus. There will never be another sailboat to do so. The designer built this vessel after making it into the sailboat hall of fame, so the designer is also award winning. You have to get your head out of the toilet. Stop drinking that water like a dog. Get some of that TP and wipe your arse. Get 52 sheets. Argh! Why do I respond to trolls. Oh yeh - its fun. Such a brave one this mholguin.

Plenty of Costa Messa boats have made crossings of cape horn singlehanded. The MacGregors are the last in the line of that tradition - True Ocean Sailboats, with the ratios required for that, and not club racers like TP52s. You just can not beat hand laid glass.

Ah how I love chatting about boats. But why chat Mac26x here? This thread is about TP52s. Pay any professional what you pay them to appear on a TP52 and find one that will not sail the Mac26x in a transpac, around the horn, on any water, just like a mini-transat. Same for the M. Start a Mac26 thread. Invite Bob Perry to the disussion.

But again, this thread is about TP52s. The entire line dies this year. Does anyone really disagree? Owners are dumping them and the new owners cut the last one third of the hull off as well as dumping up to half the keel attached ballast and then rebuild the arse so they have something close to a modern race boat. At least that is what they do with them in the Pacific Northwest, prior to Swiftsure. So I have been told and so I believe. I drink truth. Join me my brother.

Frank L. Mighetto
South Sound Sailing Society

 

[TP 52 Defender]

"The entire line dies this year. Does anyone really disagree? "

I would think the boys in area on Glory dissagree as they are haveing Hakes build them a new TP 52. I can not think of one pro who "race" a M26 in the Transpac (since they can not legaly do the race).

New boats being built as we get ready to start a new year and the class continues to build new boats - no new owners have cut 1/3 off of their boat (unless it was to make form changes). Also no measured TP 52 can cut 1/2 of the balast since the CG would be screwwed. 33 active class boats, 5 TP 52's in IRC configuration (non-class), 3 in build sheds so yes Frank I disagree since the facts show that your claim is false. Even though the boat I used to play with has been sold I still see the class for what it is - one of the top classes out there ...

Once again Frank proves he knows nothing about the class and very little about sailing.

 

[Mark 42]

A little like saying a VW Beetle was a better car than a Ferrari because more people bought them.

Even more people bought "Pet Rocks", which should say something about the
power of advertising and hyping up the abilities of a product beyond reality.

Oh, BTW, for those new to this forum...
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6106

 

[marshmat]

What the.....?

If I read that correctly, there's some new design laws now?
- 52 foot racing sailboats should have outboard engines capable of planing the hull
- Inboard propulsion is inherently an idiotic idea and should be outlawed
- All sailboats should be able to cross oceans under engine power
- Ballast should not only be high in the hull instead of on a keel, it should be hung as far off the transom as practical too
Riiiight....
I'm waiting for one of the SA folks to start a poll here, "Should Frank attempt a Pacific crossing in the 26x? Yes/No".
But if that voyage ever began, we'd lose our best side show.