Topside paint

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by fpjeepy05, Mar 18, 2012.

  1. fpjeepy05
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    fpjeepy05 Senior Member

    I'm installing some Direct glazing windows on a pilot house. The windows will be bonded with black sikaflex adhesive and the windows have the black ceramic frit border. I thought it would be nice to paint a black band around the house, maybe hid some imperfections in the window sealing. It would be nice to use a product that I could then bond the windows to so that the painting could be done first but I guess this is not absolutely necessary as I could just mask off the windows.

    The three product was looking into where the Duratec Black Hi-Gloss Topcoat, the two part polyurethanes like Awlgrip or possible the Metallic Alexseal, or lastly the National Pool Guard Epoxy.

    Reasons:
    Duratec- Cheap, Easy, Great Gloss
    Awlgrip- Quality Product, Seems to be what everyone uses
    Alexseal- What is used on the Viking Yachts, Unique Metallic, Never used it
    National- Toughest paint for the $, Good UV resistance, No Chalking, Not sure if it wouldn't have enough gloss.

    Anyone have an opinion?

    Mods not sure if this is the right loaction in the forum. Could you please relocate if necessary.
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You'll surely want to seal your windows first, then tape ff for paint. Relying on the paint's adhesion for the window sealant isn't a good idea. The LPU is a good idea, but be careful what you wish for as these paints with their very high gloss will show every imperfection, so make sure the surface is fair and smooth.
     
  3. FAST FRED
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Anyone have an opinion?

    Bedding compound Stickaflex , 5200 and the rest eventually DIE , requiring the item to be removed and new sealant installed.

    The more "perminant" the product the harder damage free removal.

    Easiest is the sealing tape simply stuck in place , the window tightened and what squeezes out is trimmed. Bedlast is for older setups that do not use tape.

    R&R in hours , not days of high risk prying.

    Extra paint will only add to the chore.

    FF
     
  4. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I prefer a hybrid approach. A narrow band of Sealant tape around the perimeter of the frame, trimmed flush to the inside face of the frame , then bedding compound layed on the frame, against the sealing tape. The tape offers adhesion, a convenient spacer to keep the window floating with no hard spots and it blocks the sikaflex from squeezing out on the inside of the window...the most difficult part to clean.
     
  5. fpjeepy05
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    fpjeepy05 Senior Member

    I think I can handle the window installation. I'm more interested in the paint. As of right now, leaning toward awlgrip, because its easy and tried and true. Anyone have any other ideas.
    Another option would be Clear Gelcoat Pigmented black and sprayed 50/50 with duratec high gloss clear additive.
     
  6. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    The pro's tell me that Alexseal is the best paint on the market
     
  7. sean9c
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    sean9c Senior Member

    Bonded in windows are getting more common, the Sika website has a great section on doing it correctly. Probably not a good idea to bond the windows to your painted surface, it's just one more bond that you have to worry about.
    You didn't mention if you're going to spray your paint or brush (roll/tip). You can spray or brush Awlgrip, they say you can also brush Alexseal but I've never met anyone who tried.
    You cannot buff Awlgrip, they say you can buff Alexseal but it's a ton of work. You could spray Awlcraft, it's buffable but not brushable.
    You could do auto basecoat /clearcoat. Easy to spray, easy to buff, a million colors and relatively inexpensive. Not quite as durable as the Awlgrip/Alexseal.
     
  8. mastcolin
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    mastcolin Senior Member

    Paint before you fit windows. Otherwise you have to mask off the sealant. This is a pain.

    If you are only painting a band around the windows, just use an auto basecoat/clear system. The UV durability is probably better than Awlgrip (due to the clearcoat) and the slightly lower hardness won't be a problem as a band around the windows. It will work out cheaper, is faster drying and is buffable. Alexseal is normally fantastic but to be honest we've had problems with the black. It needs clear added to get it to look really good. Then again on a small band it will be no problem. It buffs up good if need be. Just make sure you apply it thick enough (goes for Awlgrip as well actually if you are planning to buff)

    As noted by others, black will show everything when painted and it will bake the gelcoat over time...which may show more problems later. You have been warned.

    We've just spent week repainting maindeck on 42m MY superstructure. We spent a week before that repairing all the damage the crew made removing the windows:)
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If you paint first, the glazing bond will be to paint, not the hull shell. Simply put, you can bond to paint or to the hull shell. Guess which will be the better bond . . .
     
  10. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    On metal boats you always bond to the surface prepared paint. I have never had problems with this bond, only the glass to bedding compound bond.
     

  11. fpjeepy05
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    fpjeepy05 Senior Member

    Its going to to bake the gelcoat underneath it? But there isn't really much you can do about that?

    I see Viking uses the metallic "Black Magic" Alexseal on there Brow Masking, and I have seen a few that look really nice. Any ideas how they are getting it to come out so nice? Anyone know who to get Alexseal from in the Northeast? I see Hamilton and Lewis carry them must not a lot of products listed online.

    What is plenty thick? 12 mils? I'm a gelcoat guy myself, so how many coats? How many passes per coat can you spray without running? HVLP pressure pot gun.
     
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