TKO Electric / Solar Concept

Perpetual Motionis a myth

However with a proper gear ratio to the alternator, we do believe we can extend cruise time dramatically --- Id appreciate som other math wiz here to verify my direction.

 

If your intent is to drive an alternator from the batteries to generate power, your math is wrong. Not just a little wrong, dead wrong. This would be a perpetual motion machine.

If you are operating a gas/diesel engine to run the alternator then you would be better off running the props from the engine directly.

I am not sure what you are trying to ask here.

 

Electric Design by TKO

6 DEEP CELL Batteries are used to get the engine rolling

(2) engines are each 12 HP , 9 KW, 64 Amp - each engine is equal to 48 HP.

(Up to 6) Windmill PMA generators rotaded by the axis will contibute at least 1,000 KW each ( Reaches 12 Volts at 130 RPM. )
** run a 20 or 30 amp fuse on the output to prevent damage to the unit if your load becomes excessive. Also, consider using a charge regulator so your batteries don’t become overcharged. On our test stand with a 12 Volt battery connected the PMA produced 15 Amps at 2000 RPM (per generator)

Doing the math what kind of hours do you believe we can run at full tilt?

 

Are you saying that the windmill generators are driven by wind to charge up when the boat is not running? or by the main drive motor when it is running?

 

JRD, either way, not a chance... PERPETUAL MOTION does not happen...

TKOUSA,
(using batteries to drive the boat, and the motion of the boat to charge the batteries is a description for seeking perpetual motion)...

"PMA generators" - I think you will find that 'PMA' uses alternators and the alternating current is rectified . . .
"rotaded by the axis", - Sorry I do not comprehend . . .
"rotaded" - I think you mean 'rotated'? . . .
"contibute" - I guess you mean 'contribute' . . . - - Do please enable your 'UK-ENGLISH' dictionary as the US version is full of errors...

FACE FACTS, a myth is a myth... (weather you have a lithp or not)... no matter how convoluted or devious your regenerative systems are... - pretty models though - ...

The best battery currently in production and available at retail is not far ahead of LiFePO4 technology... - They can be charged with controlled voltage high current management systems... Not many electric motors for recreational boats are up to handling the rigours of continuous use... Solar power requires very large arrays to capture anything useful and then the need to operate at night will kill any project... Nothing comes near to the convenience and cost effectiveness of internal combustion engines using diesel or with careful precaution petroleum (gasoline as in USA), NOT LPG or other gasses...

 

The math is absolutely wrong. There will be a net loss of at least 30% with alternators. You need to go and study basic science.

 

Battery starts rotating the motor, the motor has gear ratios that attach to the altinator ... meanwhile the shaft of the motor is also connected to the props, in this case the proposed design performs a dual action of moving the boat and roatating the generators ... The idea is not to create perpetual motion - only to produce anough energy to augment the motors and or or batteries in this case. I guess I will have to draw a picture for those who do not understand.

6 Batteries [ ]---- Motor ---- Shaft ---- generators via gears ----- Propeller

 

The alternators take more energy than they produce. It is basic science. No machine is 100% efficient. You will have a heavier, bulkier system that will run down the batteries faster. Also, you are making calculations using a fully charge battery. As they get discharged the available power is less. Another thing to consider is that as the voltage drops the motors need higher amperage to keep the RPMs constant. We don't need a picture to understand that your design is inefficient and will not work.

 

Yep thanks for that...... the only thing im not sure about here is if this is a school project daydream or the OP is trying to wind us all up

 

HI JRD
Batteries run the motor which is connected to a shaft
The shaft is connected to the prop of course,
and the shaft also rotates to turn the PMA devices
The PMA Devices are each creating 12 Volts and over 1000 AMPS at 1000 RPM
TKO

 

Ok, so where does the power come from. This is like taking pennies from one pocket and putting them in the other and thinking you are getting richer. However, you drop a few with each change. You got to study basic physics.

 

TKOUSA, You will never get anywhere with "borrowing from Peter to pay Paul" as they are one schizoid personality... Give up now for your own sanity, if you persist in dreams of perpetual motion... BUT they will always remain fruitless dreams... Where does the NEW ENERGY come from...

STOP WASTING time and do your own research...

 

OK, if you're going to add wind generators (have I understood that correctly?) then the key is to look at the power in the available wind and the cross section of that wind you can intercept to drive the wind turbines. We discussed this in another thread a short time ago, and the available power in the wind is rather low, too low to make it practical to have wind generators that could directly power anything other than a low speed, easily driven, displacement hull.

If your intention is to use regenerative charging when the boat is moored, using the propellers to drive the motors as generators (and PM electric motors work just as well as generators as they do as motors) then you will have to compromise on propeller size and efficiency. The correct propeller size, pitch and rpm for propulsion will be wrong for generation, because generation can only ever recover around 60% of the available flow energy in the passing tidal flow (because of the Betz Limit). The best compromise is to size and pitch the propellers for propulsion and accept the lower efficiency (probably down around 30% or so) when used for charging. The other problem to overcome with moored tidal flow charging is start up at low tidal flow velocities. At least one company has looked at a system where the propellers start turning under motor power and then the control system shuts the power down and allows the propellers to drive the motors and controllers in regen mode. This is probably a fairly good strategy to get the best from this type of system.

The bottom line here is careful analysis of the available energy sources, solar, wind and tidal flow. Contrary to popular belief, perhaps, there isn't much energy available from any of these at a small to medium boat size, which drives the boat design to be as light displacement as possible, with an easily driven hull form, so that its energy requirement is reduced to a minimum.

 

As already pointed out, you need to factor in real-world efficiency here and remember that you cannot get out more power from a system than you put in (basic conservation of energy).

Batteries are around 80% efficient in terms of charge in to usable energy out (if they are deep discharge lead acid types).

PM motors might be as much as 90% efficient, as might generators (although you can use PM motors as generators anyway).

Propellers are typically about 60 to 70% efficient, maybe more if you can make some compromises on performance.

With your scheme outlined above, if your batteries delivered, say, 10kW to the motor, the motor would deliver about 9kW (90% efficiency). If the generator absorbed all the motor power (leaving none for propulsion) then it would deliver about 8.1 kW back to the battery and the battery would lose about 20% of that due to Peukert and charging losses, making only about 6.48 kW available for re-use. So, even with no power to the propeller your system would be using about 3.52 kW just to spin around doing no useful work.

It looks as if you're trying to build a perpetual motion machine, if I've understood the above correctly.

 

And all that in a boat displacing 1300 lbs (your post #8)?
Just the above equipment, plus the electronics and wiring, weighs more than the whole boat then...