Tips on how to start learning Rhino?

Discussion in 'Software' started by QuasarQuiliband, Feb 27, 2015.

  1. QuasarQuiliband
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    QuasarQuiliband New Member

    I'm interested in multihull sailboat design, and have purchased Rhino software for the goal.

    Can anyone direct me on where to start with it, where can I find lessons and generally what should I do to get started on designing hulls and ultimately my goal is designing a whole sailboat.

    Are there any ready plans that I could import and play around with?

    Thank you in advance!
     
  2. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    First step - learn Rhino. Work through:
    User's Guide http://www.rhino3d.com/download/rhino/5.0/UsersGuide
    Level 1 Training http://www.rhino3d.com/download/rhino/5.0/Rhino5Level1Training
    Level 2 Training http://www.rhino3d.com/download/rhino/5.0/Rhino5Level2Training

    Some sections are not directly applicable and can be skipped, but it is worthwhile to quickly read through those sections so you have some idea what you have missed.

    Also take time to read the Help sections on Hydrostatics and other area and mass properties commands. Then create simple shapes and experiment with those commands.

    If you are interested in plywood or metal construction then take time to learn about the DevSrf plug-in for creating developable surfaces. http://wiki.mcneel.com/labs/devsrf (Loft command has some problems when used to create developable surfaces.)
     
  3. QuasarQuiliband
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    QuasarQuiliband New Member

    Thank you,
    I'll start on that, if you have any more suggestions I'll be happy to hear them

    I'm interested in aluminum construction
     
  4. tdem
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    tdem Senior Member

    I'm working through this tutorial at the moment:

    http://3drender.com/rhino/boathtml/index.htm

    It's for an older version of Rhino, but not too hard to figure out mostly. The resources required can be found here: http://3drender.com/rhino/Boat/

    I don't think as far as the hull goes its the best way to approach it, but good to learn some new commands anyway.

    Also, Rhino won't help you to "design" the boat, just draw it.
     
  5. ABoatGuy
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    ABoatGuy Member

    Also check Lynda.com (I have no affiliation). They have a lot of Rhino tutorials that while not marine oriented, will get you up and running in a hurry.
     
  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    QuasarQuiliband I not want to be negative but rather, clarify possible misunderstandings. You must know that Rhino is not going to teach you to design boats. That should be learned in a different way and, once you know it, there are many tools to help you, one of which but not the most important, can be a program like Rhino or similar. Rhino is very good for rendering but not the most advanced for calculations.
     
  7. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    I will second TANSLs comment. Rhino is not going to help you design a boat. It may be a handy tool to look at the drawings from a qualified NA as you can zoom rotate and view the whole design - but you will not be able to design a boat any better after you learn Rhino.

    Where it IS handy, is if you use it to draw up a concept to pass on to an NA - as you should be able to do a better (more concise and accurate) job with Rhino than pencil and paper.
     
  8. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Rhino includes commands to accurately determine lengths, areas, volumes, moments and centroids for any curve, surface or length. With these it is possible with simple arithmetic (using paper and pencil, spreadsheet, etc) to calculate any quantities needed for naval architecture. There is also the Hydrostatics command which directly returns volume displacement, center of buoyancy, wetted surface area, waterline length, waterline beam, water plane area, and center of floatation for the input waterline height.
     
  9. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Rhino is widely used commercially for boat design including hull design and hydrostatic analysis, frequently with the Orca 3D add-on. http://www.orca3d.com/Orca3dJ/

    I agree with TANSL and rwatson that learning to use Rhino will not teach how to design boats. But learning Rhino can be a very effective and efficient tool for use in boat design.
     
  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    DCockey, I agree with you in almost everything. But that clearly demonstrates the limitations of Rhimo + Orca. How to calculate the cross curves of stability ?. How to calculate the tank sounding ?. How to calculate the equilibrium waterline in a load situation ?. How to calculate the corrections to GM because the free surfaces ?. How ....?. If no answer to these questions the conclusion that I can draw is that Rhino does not serve to design boats.
    The calculation of hisdrostáticas is less than half way in calculations that a naval architect needs to design a boat.
    Rhino is great for many things and its price is very reasonable. But unfortunately, it's not the tool that boat designer needs.
    All calculations that makes Rhino can be made with a hand calculator. Many manual calculations can be accelerated with the help of Rhino. But it is not, I suppose, to go back 20 years in our calculation capacity.
     
  11. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Rhino with Orca3D calculates equilibrium waterline for as many load conditions as desired, and calculates stability curves with either specified trim or equilibrium trim for as many displacements and CG locations as desired. While it does not directly create a "cross curves of stability" plot it does export the stability curves data in a simple CSV file which can pulled into a spreadsheet to be plotted as desired, including as cross curves of stability (assuming the appropriate conditions have been run).

    Orca3D does not currently include internal free surface effects. However those calculations can be done using Rhino commands for the basic calculations, and then a spreadsheet, calculator, etc for the final calculations. Some iteration may be required. This can certainly be tedious, and if these calculations are routinely needed then additional or other software may be appropriate.
     
  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I did not know that Rhino could perform these calculations. Glad to know but I still think that, for now, is not a program that can be used by a naval architect to fully develop a project. One thing is to calculate and plot a curve and another, more difficult, is to make quick use of it.
    As you well know, a CAD program for marine use requires many other things that Rhino (+ Orca) do not yet have.
    There is a very interesting thread in this forum, called "Hull analysis plugin for Rhino", in which the author, Karsten, tells the progress he is making in this regard. Worth seeing what he is doing.
    Just over a month ago I started to teach an online course in which all naval architecture calculations are performed with AutoCAD. So I perfectly know that Rhino, someday become a great tool for naval architects, at this time it is not.
    Question for prize: when the boat is heeled her also changes trim. Does Rhino take into account that effect?
     
  13. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Rhino + Orca3D retrims the vessel at each heel angle if that option is enabled. Another option is to specify the trim angle.

    Based on Karsten's description in http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/design-software/hull-analysis-plugin-rhino-52591.html it appears that his plug-in for Rhino does not yet have most of the capabilities available with Orca3D.

    I see from your thread http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/naval-architecture-calculations-autocad-52583.html that the calculations in your course will be done using your ARQN plug-in for AutoCAD(http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/de...architecture-calculations-everyone-50262.html), not just AutoCAD.
     
  14. DCockey
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    DCockey Senior Member


  15. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    DCockey, glad I know that with Rhino (+ Orca3D) can perform all these calculations. I am convinced that Rhino is one of the best and friendliest programs to create 3D models. I am very traditional and I do not like taking risks that can not control myself. So when someone shows me that I can develop a complete project with this tool, I feel totally happy to use it. The development of a project, for me, have many parts, one of which, but not the only, is to create a 3D model and perform almost all calculations. Meanwhile, I can only continue to encourage those who are devoted to the task of improving "living conditions" of the NA, but I will continue using other tools.
     
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