This it is my accomplishment:

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by acru, May 3, 2002.

  1. acru
    Joined: Apr 2002
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    acru Junior Member

    My accomplishment (New Graph!)

    New didactic graph to illustrate the answers (to see dwells down)


    www.run.yate.net.ar
    Not heel, it does not lie down, does not wink...

    NOTE: Commercial use forbidden without express permission of the author.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2002
  2. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Interesting concept Acru. Of course it gains no righting moment from the hull at all and the illustration does not address this. In the same wind conditions and with the same ballast and sail area, the Run system will have the mast and sail at a much greater angle from vertical than the "normal" boat. In addition to that the dynamic displacement will increase due to the downward vector of the center of effort being greater. Thus the performance will suffer due to the increased displacemnet. The driving force will be reduced due to the reduced projected area of the sailplan which further reduces performance. Not to mention the complication and what the mechanism does to the interior. There are other problems that come to mind but I've already thrown enough rocks.

    I am not sure what is being solved here. If the intent is to make sailing more palatable for the squeamish who can't tolerate for a boat to heel, then let them get a multihull or a motorboat. Personally, a boat beating to weather with a nice angle of heel is part of the jow of sailing. Take that away, and I'm not as interested in sailing.

    Keep working. Interesting thoughts, but I don't much care for this one. Maybe I'm too hasty but the first reaction is negative. Perhaps there is some application that it will be good for.
     
  3. acru
    Joined: Apr 2002
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    acru Junior Member

    Explanatory response

    Thank you for his concepts and forgive for not being sufficiently didactic me.
    Sailing with run system is to sail in stable equilibrium. A classic sailboat sails in balances always unstable, provoking major efforts and losses of propulsion.

    The link of the ballast "B" is telescopic. I modify the moment heeling.

    Regulate the sailplan and speed (propulsion).

    A multihull is not a sailboat of displacement. It is an appliance with a critical angle of heel irrecoverably.

    A sailboat takes his propulsion of the wind and moves in the water. A motorboat takes the propulsion in the same way in which he moves. The technical and conceptual difference is enormous...


    It checks the engineering enumerate in www.run.yate.net.ar


    (sorry, traslate electronic)
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I also think your idea is intriguing, though I wouldn't myself be interested. I like the feeling of a sailboat heeling… it’s part of the experience. Older sailors or people sailing with children or people new to sailing might like it though.

    A similar development are newer powerboats which have less and less bow rise getting on plane. Old habits die hard and I still like the feeling of a bot launching onto plane with its bow high and then leveling out. Not because there is a benefit (and quite to the contrary I know) but because that’s the powerboat experience I am used to.

    Does a sailboat being level improve the seaworthiness in any way, or is it just for operator comfort?
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    But doesn't this increase the chances of mechanical failures and even hull failures?
     
  6. acru
    Joined: Apr 2002
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    acru Junior Member

    Explanatory response

    I understand that the navigators are reluctant to heeling. My system, while it sails, also can do it with the traditional system (helling) easily, fixing the mast mechanically. The system, beside having an extreme safety, obtains benefits in the speed, maneuverability, visibility, comfort, etc...

    The experimental "impossible" prototype demonstrated it, the theory and the practice agreed.

    On having had minor risks, for being in stable equilibrium, one reduces the technical problems.

    Regards.

    (sorry, traslate electronic)
     
  7. tspeer
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    tspeer Senior Member

    Engineering the system

    In order for this concept to be a viable alternative, you'd have to consider more than just the static heeling of the hull.

    Have you done any performance predictions or measurements? Will the hull form be more rounded, cutting wetted area because it does not need as much form stability?

    What are the dynamics of this rig in a seaway? In the absence of damping from the sail and keel, will the hull experience roll resonance in waves? Is the hull more or less susceptible to wave-induced capsize?

    What are the structural implications of your telescoping keel? Will the telescoping be affected by marine growth?

    Are there any safety implications in having an open slot in the deck to allow for motion of the mast, especially when the mast and hull can move relative to each other suddenly and unpredictably?

    Please understand - I'm not criticizing the concept. I'm wondering about these very real engineering aspects.
     
  8. acru
    Joined: Apr 2002
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    acru Junior Member

    Aspects of engineering ...

    Tom: I am grateful for his attention and time to my work, likewise to every interested party in these beautiful topics. My "Impossible" sailboat this to his dispocición to prove the achievements of this development of engineering.

    Concepts to having in bill:
    The base of the invention is to have freed the changeable interperformers and of this form to avoid the solutions of commitment to which it forces the rigid relation between variables. To turn the construction of sailboats into a science, instead of being an art and the turned credit the previous technology in obsolete was the plot base of the patent of engineering that granted USA to me.

    Equilibrium: it does not heel in tilt angles
    Less radius of transeversal inertia (only the hull mass works)

    Structural Resistance: The hull does not recive bending-torsion forces transmitted by the sailsand ballast.
    At the same sails surface and shifting, less requerements of construction materials. Less weght and More security.

    Maneuverabilitye: The hull and its componets do not seel. The rudder works in vertical line
    Does not yaw (does not give a yaw)
    Deadweght ballast bulb is changeable in its effective working depth by telescopic device
    The "right" may be controlled voluntarily, even sailing too

    Rudder, ballast and luff: Easyness of design and the best place for the: ballast, rudder and leeboard (luff, plane-keel, bilge keel, et cetera.)

    Sagging: The surface area of the hull is contantly exposed to the wind.It maintains the projet sagging angle.

    Visibility: More visibility. It is possible to recover the bow sail at greater altitud.

    Speed: The wet areaand the symmetry of the designremain constant avoiding the sopping effect produced by the negative effect generated by the resistance of the non- symmetry lines while sailing with seel.
    Maximizes hydrodynamics properties of the design

    Freeboard: Freedom of design. The freeboard may be lower than the indicated by IOR regulations, increasing the stability by maintaining the original longitudinal equilibrium point upwards.

    Breath of Bean: Freedom of design.

    Careen: Better water lines.
    Keeps up the deviation of course or drift of the naval proyect

    Dual building: Design to be able to sail both in the traditional way or with RUN System

    Transport: Easyness of design to transport (trail) it without apendixes (ballast-boulb, leedboard, luff and rudder) with pliable mast, et cetera.

    Number of Crewmembers: Less crewmembers than regular. The funcion of body-weight of lateral crewmen on the windward bean is not needed because the sialboat does not seel.

    Work: Less work needed for the regulation and set up of sails

    Security: While the sailboat hull is upright, the risk of crewmen failing into the water is lower.
    Not to tay canted the sail ship.
    The risk of damaging equipament diminishes.

    Electronic Sounding: The electronic sounding marcs the real depth because the yacht does not seel.


    Regards.
     
  9. BrettM
    Joined: Apr 2002
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    BrettM Senior Member

    I find your idea interesting though perhaps not new. There are a number of examples of canting rigs already in existance though most of these heel the rig to windward unlike the sketches shown. One example I believe was published in "Professional Boatbuilder magazine" in the last couple of years.

    I have also viewed your photos and congratulate you on getting this idea to work but notice that you seem to have problems maintaining rig tension and feel that having the ballast supported by a tube or shaft between two centreboards would create unnesseary drag and possible be suseptable to damage.

    As racing sailer, I prefer to be able to tack in seconds not minutes and as a cruising sailor I do not wish to be bothered by things even such as vang or cunningham let alone a fully adjustable canting rig.

    Just a few thoughts for you.
    brett
     
  10. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
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    Jeff Moderator

    It certainly is an interesting concept and I very much enjoyed looking at your site to see your prototype.

    But I also wonder if it takes some of the grace away from sailing. I like the look and feel of a traditional sailboat - the tension of the hull (water) and sails (wind) working together to create a balance in motion. Maybe I'm just set in my ways already ;)
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would like to hear more on this. Other than rudder efficiency, what are the negative hydrodynamic effects of heel on the efficiency of a typical sailing hull that are overcome by the RUN system.
     
  12. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Jeff,

    There are lots of implications inherent int the RUN concept that have not been addressed here.

    1. The forestay, backstay, mainsheet, foresail clew fairlead and any other mast or rig support system must move in concert with the mast. These must be in the axis of the mast/keel pivot or it won't work. Otherwise, sail trim will vary as the mast moves laterally. Looking at the pictures closely, it appears that the jib fairlead is attached to several different points. They may not have solved that problem.

    2. What is this thing like in a seaway? What damps the rolling of the hull that is bound to be induced by asymetrical wave action on the hull? What is it like to make sail changes with the mast moving around and threatening to kick you overboard?

    3. Since the righting moment of the hull is given away, the ballast in the keel must be increased to get the same mast angle as a "normal" boat. In typical conditions, most of the righting moment comes from the hull and not the ballast. Notice how much the mast is canted in the easy wind and sea conditions of the photos.

    4. The cost, complexity and loss of interior are not negligible either.

    I admit that, like you, I like the action of a sailboat to weather. If I wanted to sail level, I'd be more interested in multihulls.
     
  13. acru
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    acru Junior Member

    Clarifying some concept

    Easyness of design and the best place for the: ballast, rudder and leeboard (luff, plane-keel, bilge keel, etc).

    The helm and other appendices of the hull are employed at dense, water (without alteration) They Are employed together with the hull since(as,like) at a classic sailboat but the difference is that is always perpendicular to the water (righted). The efficiency increases working this way.

    The propellent (mast, riggings, candles, link, arm of ballast, and bulb) works with angle to the horizon, depending of: intensity of the apparent wind and the moment adrizante that acts (I can change it with an arm or telescopic link)

    We remember that the link or axis in where propellent joins with ship, is in medium perspective of longitudinal symmetry (crujia) and in the line of flotation or lower. The more down I put the axis of entail (hull, mast) the more the sleeve works and the stabler it turns out to be the set, but I lose speed for increase of resistances.

    It notices: I will try to add to this forum in the next graphical days, formulae and information that serve to clarify the concepts that characterize my development of engineering.

    Thank you very much to the forum
     
  14. acru
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    acru Junior Member

    Response to BrettM

    When in the civilized world, since in USA a patent of invention is granted, it is because it expired with the international requirements as for innovation, usefulness(utility) and other aspects. This is an innovation, therefore this concept was never realized. We analyze every aspect without the previous judgments that come from our memory.
     

  15. acru
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    acru Junior Member

    ¡Seel (heel) all that and when it want!

    The angle decides it yuo!

    Quite or all, only it is possible with Run System!

    it can choose heel more or less independent of the wind

    SO THAT TO SUPPORT THE HEEL THAT ITS BOAT HAS BY DESIGN? IT IS NOT TO CLEAR EMOTION TO HIM?

    RUN SYSTEM FULFILLS ALL THEIR DESIRES...





    NOTE: Commercial use forbidden without express permission of the author
     

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