Thinking about building a center console

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by Nakiam949, Mar 29, 2008.

  1. Nakiam949
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    Nakiam949 Junior Member

    Hi, I have a project in mind that I'm gathering information for but while I know what I'm looking for in design my boat building skills are basic (Layman). I'm thinking about a 40- 43 ft center console / walkaround design utilizing a variation of cold molding by skinning with foam instead of plywood. What I'm trying to find out is what the best cloth and core material would be in order to keep the project weight down to a minimum, but still have the strength and durability for blue water trips. I was thinking maybe a mixed carbon fiber kevlar layup with a stepped bottom and I'm in between minds on either a tripple Yamaha/Verado 350 setup or a Volvo IPS system. I appreciate any help that you can supply. Heres a basic sketch of what I kind of have in mind, Please excuse the quality it was done in MS paint.
     

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  2. lazeyjack

    lazeyjack Guest

    WELL MY SON, you did ask, I think your idea is plainly bonkers
    go out buy a real boat google up island Gypsy. IMO find a boat , parctical, live aboard, catch the gals. stuff,
    Well its only my opinion:p
     
  3. Nakiam949
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Nakiam949 Junior Member

    Hey, I thank you many times over for your opinion and believe me it isn't falling on deaf ears but likewise it's not the first time that I've heard it. My main attraction to building is in having something that isn't fresh from a cookie cutter. I've had 15 boats in my life time and all of them had one thing or another that the others didn't have whether it was speed, size, storage and probably most of all the satisfaction of building something thats your own. Price isn't an obsticle so purchasing somone's old problem never even entered the equation, besides I know someone with an Island Gypsy in Texas and from what he says it wouldn't be my first choice. So trust me if thats bonkers then I guess I and everyone else using this BOAT DESIGN site are as well.
     
  4. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    Hi Nakiam,
    Welcome aboard boatdesign.net!

    You're far from being the first or only person to come here asking about such an idea. For many people, there is considerable appeal in designing and building something that is uniquely your own.

    I'd like to clarify, for one thing, why I think lazeyjack has taken the stance he has (and why, given the information at hand, I find it hard to argue with him):
    See the problem? You claim your building skills are basic and, by posting an MSPaint sketch, you've implied that drawing and/or CAD perhaps aren't your forte either. You've then suggested that you want to build something very large, very fast and very powerful using expensive, difficult-to-engineer materials, and that you want to take it offshore.

    What if the initial post read something like this? I bet the reaction would be very different:
    "Hi all, I'm finding that my fifteenth boat no longer suits my needs and I want to build something faster and offshore-capable. I've already built two runabouts from plans and a 24' inshore fishing boat to my own design, and am now looking at a 35-40' offshore centre-console fisherman. I'm looking for a designer with experience in this type of craft to assist me with the hydrodynamics and structural engineering of this design....."

    The trouble is, Nakiam, the evidence you've given suggests you don't yet have the skills to engineer something like this on your own. (I know I wouldn't try, not yet- not without a few smaller, simpler and more predictable projects under my belt first.)

    Price is always an obstacle, even when people say it isn't. You've already spec'd almost a hundred grand in powertrain and associated equipment. Plonk that into a boat with no design pedigree and no reputable shop backing the construction and, quite frankly, you won't be able to resell without losing most of your investment. A stepped carbon hull alone represents an enormous sum of money and, unless you're dealing with a designer who knows steps, there's a good chance it won't work.

    I'd suggest a couple of options at this point that would be suitable based on what's been provided so far. (If you do have more experience with design/build than has been suggested, please elaborate.)

    (1) Hire a naval architect experienced with high-speed planing craft to work through the initial design and engineering. You'll provide the overall design direction, he'll figure out how to make it work as you want it to. Have a reputable yard build the hull, structure and deck in a reliable and proven material. You can then do the rigging, outfitting, etc. yourself.

    (2) Find a new or used hull with the performance characteristics you desire. Custom fabricate whatever you need to make it suit your needs, and do all the rigging and outfitting yourself.

    In both cases, you still get the satisfaction of getting exactly what you want and putting a fair bit of it together yourself. You also get the security of a design and a structure done by people who know, through long experience, how to make it work.

    Another option is to try something smaller, but that doesn't seem to be your thing.

    Best of luck, in any case.
     
  5. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    I'm an amateur but not a rookie and I wouldn't mess up with carbonfibre laminates anything bigger than fits in the owen:D so if I were planning something like that maybe I'd choose aluminium.
     
  6. Nakiam949
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Nakiam949 Junior Member

    Hi Matt,
    I really appreciate what the both of you have said and it all makes sense, lazyjack I do appologise if my reply seemed a bit unappreciative but I've always been a person that designed my own if I felt that I could improve on what was available. I've done everything from sport fishing to offshore racing in my boats, and actually designed two of them, one an outboard powered stepped catamaran of 22ft the other a 17ft runabout. They ran beautifully but that was then (14years ago), I'm now in the process of starting a boat design course with Westlawn and this particular boat will be both a study and a future build. The Ms Paint post is basicly a sketch, what can I say some people use napkins in a resturant I'm comfortable using Ms paint, it all works for getting an idea onto paper before going into full detail.
     
  7. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    I am not a designer or NA. What I see here seems kind of typical for this kind of post. "I want to build a boat x meters long by x meters wide. What is the best material to use?" Though this post has a little more info, triple Yamaha's and hard, blue water trips, it is still a cart before the horse, 100% open ended question with no real answer. A mixed carbon fiber kevlar layup over foam could be an excellent solution. It could also could be a disaster. It depends on where you put the carbon fiber, it depends on where you put the kevlar. It depends on how much you use and where it is put. It depends on what internal structure backs it up. On the other hand wood or metal could be an excellent solution, but the same questions would arise.

    The first thing I think of when you say
    is to buy a proven blue water hull in the form of an older, cheap Chris Craft/Concorde etc. and instead of designing on a napkin with a pen, mark out on the boat with a Magic Marker. Take a chainsaw and then eliminate the cabin, flybridge and anything else you don't want, leaving roughly a third of the deck up front with some berths, cabin, cooking, crapper space and the back two thirds easily converted to a wide open deck with a center counsel of whatever design you want. As Marshmat says,
    I'm not trying to be especially ugly here, just generally, so don't get upset. Re-doing old seems to me just as interesting if not more-so than building anew and it would seem to fit in with your mindset.
     
  8. Nakiam949
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Nakiam949 Junior Member

    Okay whilst I'm still hell bent on designing my own I HAVE found a suitable candidate for modifying. It's a 1991 40ft Magnum that the guy is selling rather cheaply. I also talked to a friend of mine who has the software and computing power that I would need to design and virtually test my theories for feasibility. Trust me I know that designing and building something this big is a gargantuan undertaking and could take quite some time but I also understand what has been said here about the ease of modifying a hull to fill my needs versus the headaches of building from scratch, so both options have my full attention.
     
  9. jiggerpro
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: spain

    jiggerpro Senior Member

    Hello Nakiam; I am with you and understand your feel, If you do not know something , surely you can find or hire that knowledge no one was born knowing about boats or 3D design, but many have succeeeded in learning those skills surely you can too but you need some tendency an hability to build which you surely do. it may take some time to gather the neccessary knowledge but if you persevere you will surely prevail. Internet is a great source of knowledge and having some money so spend will surely make things easier. If I where nearer I would help you with the 3d design but surely there is plenty of people in the forum ready to help, but most of them, wont stand total ignorance so go ahead and start reading and learning to achieve a helpable level. Good luck
     
  10. Nakiam949
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Nakiam949 Junior Member

    Hey Jiggerpro,
    Thanks for the vote of confidence, I appreciate any input, both the positive and the skeptical, thats how we all perservere. I appreciate the offer, who knows with the internet you might just be able to help me one day. I took a look at that Magnum and it's in pretty bad shape ( yeah duh because it was a salvage). Apparently the owner thought he had a landing craft and beached it at close to 50 knots. The main work would be in repairing the starboard chine area near the stern where a huge 4ft hole was formed from impact damage. The rest of the bottom more or less has mostly cosmetic damage with a relatively deep gouge going from the bow and ending in a softball sized hole near the aft starboard keel. Not a pretty sight but it can be fixed especially for the price as the vessel is minus all drives, motors, and essential salvagable parts. As far as designing a vessel goes my friend and I have been at work and have a concept together which will be drawn out within the next few weeks. We're gonna use a CNC machine for making a few models of slightly modified hulls so that we can actually test them and blah, blah, blah you know the rest. The results being that we'll be testing concepts using both the Magnum hull and my own design.
     
  11. jiggerpro
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Location: spain

    jiggerpro Senior Member

    I wish you the best, there is a "saying " in my country: "the ones that are afraid will never cross the sea" I reccomend you the use of Rhinoceros as a
    3d software if you persevere you will be rewarded with success ... it has always been that way
     
  12. ct marine nz
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    ct marine nz Junior Member

    smart looking tub if you dont build it I will
     

  13. Nakiam949
    Joined: Mar 2008
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    Location: Maryland

    Nakiam949 Junior Member

    Hey thanks, means a lot coming from so far away. We're actually working out the numbers in order to get a scale model made. I'll happily supply details once we start the real build.
     
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