the vector fin proa

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by fritz roth, Dec 13, 2006.

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  1. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    rob denney Senior Member

    G'day,

    Not just weaker, but no lighter. The ampount of resin required to wet out fibreglass and the wood under it is the same, whether the resin has glass balls in it or not. Adding the balls to the resin during wet out just makes it harder to wet the cloth and may result in their not being enough resin to wet the timber. Making a much stiffer bog afterwards and filling the weave will result in less resin use overall, an easier job and a better laminate, which is why every boatbuilder in the world does it this way.

    10 gallons of epoxy and hardener at the 40 gallon price from Shell, who produce it, is $Aus266. A 5 kg bag of glass balloons at the 100 kg price from the producers is $AUS40. Total so far is $306, assuming you know someone who is in the business and can get you these materials at cost. This is 30% of Fritz's total spend of $AUS1,000. If you can get it cheaper than this, Fritz, please let us know the web page of your source.

    Look forward to more cost saving techniques and quantities of materials required.

    regards,

    Rob
     
  2. fritz roth
    Joined: Dec 2006
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    fritz roth Junior Member

    money g

    .



    ...... of cource you need carbon fibers ......

    never !

    because glas is more flexing
    meaning more for giving !

    so you can save the much higher cost
    of carbon fibers

    and of cource you dont buy your glas cloth
    by the yard !

    but get a whole roll !
    close to a 100#

    and if you dont use all
    you can use in a hunderd years still
    if you keep the sun away from it !

    and .... most distribitor have special offers >
    like from customers
    no getting their special ordered widths
    or what ever ....

    for one half or less !

    just look at their sites ...........



    .
     
  3. melong
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    melong Junior Member

    >Oi Fritz!

    >Some questions I have







    >for you!


    >Why for teh fin
    >
    >of teh nature vectoring?

    >Vos is up mit dis mein ol' cobber?

    >Adding this is

    >downward force to windward.

    >Effectively this makes teh boat









    >heavier!

    >Why not Bruce foils to teh loo'ard side mate?
    >Lifting teh boat this would be. Also safer.
    >Vot is happening to your windward foil in waves?
    >Leaving the water it is maybe? Not ferkin good for stability, that.


    On a more stylistically conventional note, no bloody way will you build anything you can fit in for $1,000AUS. Nor is glass a better building material than CF unless your only criteria are abrasion resistance and cost. Your problem Fritz is that you appear to be totally unrealistic.
     
  4. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member


    regards ?

    answering all the question posted by me >>>>>> first !



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  5. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member




    ....... appearance ........ ?

    what appearance ?

    >>>> if I see >>> people buying 3ghz pcs >
    for writting statements about appearances !

    then all they are saying must be >>>> fake !

    ps ..... I will not buy a windows vista for any thing ........... too !

    for appearances ........


    .
     
  6. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member




    .......... what is brilliant about having to control your boats stability ?
    limited at that >

    in addition to your sheets !

    mr bruce had this idea !
    last century ......

    but a vfp needs no controlling !
    in the 21 centrury ......

    because it has the ability to tend for its self !

    because the designer of
    had the ability to think in a logical way ...........



    .
     
  7. melong
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    melong Junior Member

    >Fritzy Baby............hopeth I

    >confusedeth thee not! Surely mein.......



    >......thoroughly.........

    >buggered and disjointed.......!!:D !!


    >post, did not........

    >scramble thine eyeballs?
    >Using your preferred format for clarity I was!

    >Taking teh piss I be not doing.........

    >speaking in tongues I am.... for ease

    >........ of comprehension on your part!
     
  8. melong
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    melong Junior Member

    Why? It's easy. Cats and tris do it all the time with floats and foils to leeward. What's your point?
     
  9. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member



    .......... oh my .............

    where in heaven am I here ?

    have any of you heard of diagonal xxxxxx ?

    this term its like half a century old
    when the first trimarans did it so well !

    because when you surf on down ........

    the float doesnt have enough boyancy
    to compensate the force of ...........

    this is why I have >> even a harry has ?

    the long hull to lee ward !
    and your righting concept to wind ward !


    > but I get the feeling you will never get it <


    .
     
  10. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member


    ........ for some one .......

    who doesnt know a thing >

    you shurely say a lot !



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  11. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member

    money f

    .

    ...... this is about your structure ......

    >>> have you heared the name of >> structural foam ?

    this is the stuff >>> that costs at least 10 x
    what a much liter foam costs

    and is no more structural then this !

    because if you put an both sides
    of your " structural" foam
    some fiber glas !

    then pull at it from the apposite sides !

    and you will see >>>
    it does no only flex greatly
    from the shear forces !
    but it will stay sheared after !
    if pulled at it enough .....

    so ?

    you need to have a connection
    from one side to the other !

    > other then the foam itself <

    no matter what foam you use !
    so use the one that is the litest and cost 1/10 ....

    like the 3/4 ps polydur foam > basf
    then you have 1" wide strips of this >
    with structural mixture glued together >

    to have a box girder ..... with every one there ....

    and because its 1" over all thick >
    you have the most stable of structures possible ...........



    .
     
  12. melong
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    melong Junior Member

    So when we cut through all the crap all you're saying is that the leeward hull needs sufficient bouyancy not to bury. I would have thought this was perfectly obvious. Where did I ever suggest anything else? So you agree there's no problem with having a float to leeward? What, then, were you waffling about?
     
  13. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member



    ........ only if you are having a float to wind ward at all times !
    if you have one it all .....

    and your main hull to lee ward all the time !
    will you have enough safety in any thing !

    this is obvious for decades !
    and any mind worth taking about > will see this clearly why ....

    and all the crap and waffling you are giving forth
    is obvously >>> crap !

    so as far as I am concerned you can cut it !
    because all you do is be a shame .......

    to humanity !

    and forget the contraption called "raptor" as well !

    because first > it has the float on the lee > half the times !
    and in addition you need to control the stability all the time !
    the wind is heavy .....

    like you did have enought to do then ........

    before I would get this "raptor" >
    " this brilliant idea "

    I would rather get just a cat
    then I would have the same sailing ability

    on both tacks !!!

    or better yet >
    I would get the really brilliant idea >

    a vfp !

    but for this
    I have to be able to under stand some thing more advanced >

    then weight
    or idiotic contraptions .............


    .


    .
     
  14. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member

    money r

    .

    ..... this is about the engine of your vfp ....

    the rig !

    >>> now imagine !

    you should have a free standing one >>
    high tech >>> and modern rig !

    say >> 2" thick and 20' high !

    so .... you are having only 100# on the top
    and because you are so " high tech " >

    having a ton compression / pulling
    at the bottom .... at least !

    a free standing mast maybe worth a consideration >
    on a slim line mono ... with low stability
    and no base to speak of >

    but on a multi ... especialy a vfp >
    its simply insanity !

    because you need it much thicker
    to be able to be even functional
    in regular wind loads >

    but then it will have a lot more windage
    then a 2" stayed mast
    and >>>> it will need to be turn able !

    some thing other wise not needed on a proa
    because the sail is on the lee ward side
    not behind >>> fastened on ....

    > so the air flow is smooth <

    so .... buy a $ 10 aluminum tube
    and fasten it with stays to your wide base deck
    and you will have maybe # 200 compression load !
    >>> and this even over the whole profile <<<

    and forget about a $ 1000
    carbon fiber reinforced contraption !



    .
     

  15. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    My Gawd, Fritz Old Boy...

    This has turned into a Fritz-a-thon.. Next thing you know, there'll be a mandatory donation to the Fritz Charity of Fritz's discretion.

    I haven't seen this many self-serving posts since.... Well, since any of the various and sundry lifting foil based, shill posts.

    What, exactly, is it that you are desperately trying to say, Fritz? Can it be that the English language thing has gotten you so in a quandary that you've lost your cohesive train of thought on all this? Please tell me that this is not all you have on this topic?

    No, really, I'd like to hear your definitive pitch about vector foils, Fritz, but it is more than a hassle to read your posts and it ends up not being worth the effort to push through your, rather stilted, prose.
     
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