the vector fin proa

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by fritz roth, Dec 13, 2006.

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  1. fritz roth
    Joined: Dec 2006
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    fritz roth Junior Member



    ....... have you checked out the yahoo proadesign group ?

    there is a hinged vector fin proa shown under " files "
    having 6" of draft !

    with out the fin ......
    and this can just slide onto the beach or over a sand bar .........

    or be pulled up completly !





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  2. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member


    xxxxxxx and just one hull to build !

    >>>> half the sail area to go as fast <<<<




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  3. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    rob denney Senior Member

    G'day,
    You could have a look at Elementarry http://www.harryproa.com/Elementarry.htm Using both rudders, it would be possible to sail it with only 12" draft. The camping version gives plenty of space for the toilet and a 6' wide double bed. It is light enough to pull up the beach, although you will need either fenders for rollers or to empty out the cruising gear if you want to get it a long way up the beach. It comes apart to 8' wide for trailering, and my racing version can be ready for sailing 20 minutes after arriving at the ramp.

    There has only been one camper built so far, but the owner has done a couple of overnight coastal sails and is planning a trip round Australia this summer. He is pretty happy with the handling and speed. If you want more information go to http://www.harryproa.com/Elementarry.htm and look through the "Messages" for those from Doug Haines, or ask him any questions on the forum. There is also a guy named Carlos who sails his own design in Florida.

    There are a couple of other proas to look at (Google Mbuli and Gary Dierking). Although they don't fulfill your most important requirement, this could easily be addressed with a deck tent.

    Any questions, please let me know.

    regards,

    Rob
     
  4. Trevlyns
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Trevlyns Senior Citizen/Member

    I must say I’m intrigued by the way this thread is developing. ;)

    I’ve only recently come to study proas in depth and am designing one myself. This thread alone has sent me off in various directions searching ever deeper for more answers.

    I think there is definitely merit in what both Fritz and Rob have to say. Healthy disagreement stimulates interest but I don’t think just brushing off Rob as a marketing man holds water. I’ve been in contact with Rob a couple of times about technical issues and he has always been most obliging and helpful.

    Similarly, Fritz has a message too but because he does not present it in a “normal” fashion is no reason to cast doubt on his abilities.

    I say let’s keep the arguments coming, but let’s not go over the heads or below the belt. That way we could all learn a thing or two. :p
     
  5. naturewaterboy
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    naturewaterboy Steel Drum Tuner

    Thanks for the info. I did join the Yahoo group on proas, and visited the harry proa website briefly. I'm going back to view the harry site again. Any estimate on build time for the various models out there?
     
  6. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member

    mr denny

    .



    ...... can any one ?

    saying > ??? a multi having 2 hulls >
    is only being as heavy as a vector fin proa >

    having only one hull ! ???


    >>> and <<<

    a boat having the only accomodation in his
    >>> short <<< hull

    is having >>> more <<< accomodations ! ?
    then in a long hull ! ?

    or even in >> both << hulls of a catamaran ! ?


    >>> and a bridge deck <<<

    having all this twisting to confront
    for having to hold two hulls together !
    in a seaway >>

    is not heavier ???
    as one having just a fin on his end !


    and finnally
    saying my plans are rxxxxx
    when he hasnt been even seeing one
    with his own eyes !

    just the decade old general previews
    being published at my sites ......


    can any one ?
    saying all this rxxxx >>>

    be telling the truth ?



    ps >> the ocean is ....
    like a mountainous region most of the times !

    and if you set a regular chair on a rocky ground
    it most likely will wip around there !

    and if you sit on it with all your might !
    it will break >

    >>> try it <<<


    so ..... a regular multi is a 4 legged chair
    snaping around an the mountainous sea !

    >> just open your eyes ones <<

    a harry has the hind legs closer
    then the front .........

    but it has more weight at the back
    so it is about the same problem configuration ........


    contrary to all this
    a vfp is a >>> 3 <<< legged chair !

    having just one hull being like 2 legs
    and a single leg >>> the fin !

    and a 3 legged chair will be sitting
    with out wiping there on any thing !

    no breaking if you sit on it with all your might !


    just like the vfp being comfortable in any thing .......

    no wipping > no stress ........

    meaning a lot less weight !
    and the same speed at half the sail area ...........



    .
     
  7. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member

    .


    ......... the best " cabin " .............

    is a gigantic tent on your bridge deck !
    when anchoring ............

    because it doesnt fould your sailing preformance >
    and its high up >
    to really be able to look around !

    an it can be bigger then any thing
    you could possibly be dreaming of in a cabin ..........





     
  8. melong
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    melong Junior Member

    Forsooth
    why must thou
    post in haiku

    Tis not artistic
    merely foolish
    and pretentious

    Thou lookest
    muchly like one
    that tosseth.:p
     
  9. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    rob denney Senior Member

    G'day,

    Build time is a difficult subject. I built a 35 footer in 500 hours, but it was pretty rough http://www.harryproa.com/Newsletters/news2_hg2.htm. I then had a very disgruntled customer who was still on the fiorst hull after 500 hours. It also depends on how much you do yourself. We supply the plans for you to build mast, boom and beams and most of the fittings, but you could also buy these. The 50 footers ready to cruise take professional builders about 4,000 hours. Not sure how long Doug took to build his Elementarry, but it was not long.

    Sorry I can't be more specific, but there are just too many imponderables.

    Regards,

    rob
     
  10. terhohalme
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    terhohalme BEng Boat Technology

    As a guideline:
    Building time is approximately one hour per one kilogram of boat.
    Building cost is $10 to $15 per one kilogram of boat.

    These are for "low tech" boats.

    Terho
     
  11. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Thank you Melong. You have described the originators text with style, art, and class.
     
  12. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member

    money !

    .


    ..... I have been ......

    hearing people say >
    you cant build a vfp for a $ 1000 !

    so here I will start a series of ideas
    to make it possible >>>>

    starting with your epoxy !

    you mix into on every batch >>> glas bubbles !
    to lighten and strengthen the out come >

    like when filling in glas cloth
    you mix into enough glas bubbles >>

    to make the mixture roll even more easily
    into the cloth !

    being then lighter at the end
    and costing less as well ......

    and you will lay onto the soaked layer of cloth
    the next and the next !

    till you have all the resin mixture soaked up !

    needing no vacum technic
    nor having any of your mixture wasted !

    and if you need a patty >
    you mix into more glas bubbles

    to have a very lite mix
    and again saving money !

    you have to be carefull
    not to get too many glas bubbles into >

    but with the help of a digital kitchen scale
    you can do it after trying it out some .....

    then of cource >
    you will not get into your car >
    and buy a quart of epoxy at your neighborhood store !

    but are buying 10 gal of it at a distribitor !
    you have been checking out on the net ....

    and you know will sell > a good epoxy system <


    all in all
    you can save 90% of the cost of your epoxy
    if you follow this inteligent proceedure !


    .
     
  13. fritz roth
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    fritz roth Junior Member

    .


    ....... now ...........

    are you all aggreeing with me fully ?

    or are you not able to comprehend what I said ?

    maybe you are having alterior intentions ?

    or all of them ?





     
  14. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Hi Fritz,
    I must admit, the vector fin concept is intriguing, and probably worthy of further study.
    I do wish that you could write in sentences and paragraphs on here. It would make it a lot easier to understand what you're trying to say.
    As far as mixing microballoons in to reduce epoxy use- I should caution anyone thinking of doing this, that using such a blend to wet out fibreglass is substantially weaker than laminating with epoxy alone, to the point where the structural integrity of the craft may be compromised. Screwing with laminate design requires a very solid understanding of how each component works and why; simple substitutions rarely work well.
     

  15. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Raptor 16 foil assisted "proa"

    Check this out:
    Hydrovisions Innovative High-Performance Watercraft Design
    Address:http://hydrovisions.com/ Changed:5:55 PM on Friday, May 5, 2006
    -----
    The foil is manualy controlled to allow it to pull down or lift up to create righting moment.
    Be sure to see the excellent illustrations under "How it works" and the "Photo Gallery".
    Brilliant idea!
     
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