The use of a decision matrix to prioritize SOR items in the boat design process

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by TANSL, Nov 30, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 4,656
    Likes: 87, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

  2. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 6,303
    Likes: 132, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Well, I did have some slim hopes !
     
  3. AusShipwright
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 29
    Likes: 0, Points: 1, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Australia

    AusShipwright Junior Member

    Analysis was performed for each criteria and weighted on what we thought was most important to satisfy the design brief. I’m not trying to champion the method, just want to find out if it’s actually used.
     
  4. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 6,303
    Likes: 132, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I appreciate your input, and obviously it is of interest to see what extent it is being used, and how useful it is. So far we have to take the word of proponents, no sample boat design matrices are forthcoming. :) Except the bodgie one I made up !
     
  5. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 1,767
    Likes: 133, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    1. Most, if not all, of the decent forum members, including the ones who could pull an example of an implemented decision-matrix in boat design right out of their desk drawers, by now have pulled out of this hijacked thread, and won't post anything here on request of the hijackers.

    2. The confidentiality of such sensitive business information is usually established through a non-disclosure agreement (NDA), which is a legally binding contract between all the involved parties in any professional relationship. And so such an NDA protects this kind of non-public business information from publication.

    3. If the confidentiality is not legally protected as described in point 2, then usually the same is done by agreements based on personal trust between the involved parties.

    4. So this kind of sensitive and also confidential business information about real cases can only be released if all involved parties agree to do so.

    Nevertheless, some interesting implemented decision-matrices in boat design showed up on the web when I searched for it, from which I learned quite a lot.

    I won't share this info with the hijackers though, since I believe it would be a wrong signal to put a bonus on hijacking, and so reward this kind of behavior.

    In post #12 = now #7 I have suggested to start a split off thread about this in itself interesting topic...
    Alas this suggestion was ignored, and the hijack evolved further, with as results that now only the posts #1 + #2 and #7 + #8 + #9 = now #3 + #4 + #5 * are about the original topic, the rest of all posts here are about the now new main topic, and the original thread title doesn't cover the new and interesting main subject...
    ( Edit: P.S. * and post #18 = now #6 - for the first half, as the second half is only a copy of post #8 = now #4. )

    A little side effect of the hijack is that I won't share the interesting implemented decision-matrices in boat design I've found on the web, and from which I learned quite a lot, but anyone interested can dig this up, so that's not a real problem in this case.

    About the hijackers; from one I expected this, the others have disappointed me, especially the main accomplice in this.

    I do regard it a shame on the Moderator to have such a prime example of a hijack on his forums, while the interesting side topic itself is worth to have a subject thread of it's own on the Boat Design forums.

    If the hijackers of the original subject don't start a thread themselves about their own interests, then the Moderator could have easily have made a split off thread about the new interesting subject, and then let both threads carry on on their own, he still can do so, if he wants to.

    If one would grant me the honour to do a suggestion for a split off thread title, then this would be . . . .

    Decision-matrix method, and its use in boat design ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  6. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 1,767
    Likes: 133, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Moderator,

    Please see the suggestion for a split off thread, near the bottom of post #57 = now #51, which I mostly wrote in response to the hijackers about their glorifying of the not showing up of real info on their request.

    Regards,
    Angélique
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  7. Boat Design Net Moderator
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 448
    Likes: 67, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1004
    Location: www.boatdesign.net

    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    < This topic has now been split into its own thread >
     
  8. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 4,656
    Likes: 87, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Hello everybody. For reasons probably justified, the Moderator has decided to separate these post from its original thread and create a new thread.
    I would never have started a thread with this stupidity. Simply, in the original thread, I tried to demonstrate, according to the Moderator in a "rough" and "insincere" way, that the OP was being given totally useless advice. Probably this way of expressing myself, totally "incorrect", has originated this decision of the Moderator. You could have ruled out all the inconvenient things that were said in the original thread, but doing as if I were the initiator of this thread seems to me also "inconvenient".
    I greatly regret the approach that has been given to this matter.
     
  9. Boat Design Net Moderator
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 448
    Likes: 67, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 1004
    Location: www.boatdesign.net

    Boat Design Net Moderator Moderator

    The discussion on the topic of the use of a decision matrix has created 3-4 pages of posts so far, so it seems there was sufficient interest to merit a thread of its own.
     
  10. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 4,656
    Likes: 87, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    Of course, I have great interest in knowing how this tool could be used for boat design. That is why I have asked for explanations and examples on several occasions. But I am afraid that the defenders of this method do not want to share their knowledge with others, or do not know anything about it, apart from what they just found on the web.
    That being the case, why start a new thread ?. At least, please, do not say that I started it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  11. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 1,767
    Likes: 133, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    In post #1 is clearly stated by a Moderator addition where this thread originated: ‘‘ < thread split from Hi all from Sweden > ’’

    So, unlike you suggested in the above post, nothing is unclear about where and how this thread started, and there is also in the original thread in post #6 a reference with a link to this discussion regarding the suggestion to use the decision-matrix method in boat design. So everyone reading there is guided towards your concerns uttered here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  12. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 6,303
    Likes: 132, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    In response to Angelique, I do not accept that "commercial-in-confidence" considerations explains the absence of examples of actual boat design matrices, it would be easy enough to excise anything that would identify the parties involved, the name of the boat etc. Even a cropped version of the full matrix would have been enough. But nothing ! We are presumably talking about generic design factors not peculiar to any boat or designer, so I see no great need for secrecy. As to the statement you found examples on the net, but are not about to reward "hijackers" by revealing them.....Well, I have no hesitation in awarding you full membership of the Brotherhood Of The Secret Squirrel ! :) Bad form for a forum, imo, I have enjoyed reading much of what you contribute, but I believe your antagonism toward TANSL, whatever it derives from, I know not, has got the better of you.
     
  13. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 4,656
    Likes: 87, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 300
    Location: Spain

    TANSL Senior Member

    You really believe, Mr. Moderator, that it was worth opening this thread. Would not it be better to erase it totally and forget about the subject? I, of course, give you my permission to do so.
     
  14. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 6,303
    Likes: 132, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Someone may yet"bust out" of the fog with an actual example, or even an anecdote of how they applied a formal design matrix to designing a boat, don't give up yet. I'm not resigned to a "take you nowhere, show you nothing" mentality preventing any appearance of a shining example of a boat design matrix.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017

  15. rxcomposite
    Joined: Jan 2005
    Posts: 1,643
    Likes: 93, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 1110
    Location: Philippines

    rxcomposite Senior Member

    The Decision Matrix and the SOR can never be reconciled because it is an entirely different method of analysis like a dog and a cat.

    First, SOR is a design goal that goes through a Design Spiral method to test the viability. It is an OPTIMIZATION process and, along the way, compromises will have to be made to achieve the specific use. Optimization is based on available graphs or existing formula that defines the graph. Several graphs that define the feasibility is used that is why the DS cannot be simplified into a simple Faze linear boundary graph.

    The simplified Decision Making/Matrix is based on product existing. It assigns weight based on the narrow band of chosen product. There may be two (or more) products that meets the criteria but are not exactly the same in terms of availability or cost of operation. In Scientific Management, the more complex method of Decision Tree method is used. Decision tree is like chess, forecasting your next move based on the last arrangement.

    The DM (or DT) can be used as a subset of Design Spiral but not as a whole. For example, in the DS stage, it shows that for a given Fn and displacement, it requires a 1,000 Hp engine. Sample data of 1,000 Hp available is gathered and evaluated according to cost, maintenance, service available, ect. Note that the process is used based on available products/data.

    The DS can produce a design, or several feasible designs that can be evaluated. Thus, a set of data defining the passenger capacity, displacement, speed, cost to purchase, operating cost, ect. The DM can be used to choose which is appropriate for intended use but it cannot be used in the design per se.
     
    Angélique and Barry like this.
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.