The Top 50 Advantages of Junk Rig

Please permit me to be a Captain Obvious, ha-ha!, because the following comments probably won't be new to most anyone around here. :)

Most folks would seem to be fair weather sailers, though, or at least that's my impression. I'm not one to criticize them for it either, after all: I'm my relative's relative. ;)

I would also opine that finding actual old salts who work the rig hard in bad weather will have you looking towards China and India.
 
I don't know. I'm extracting some clues about those who sail Junk rigs which raise an eyebrow.

a) Contrary to all the hype, they are primarily fair weather sailors.
b) They enjoy the simplicity of raising/dropping sails (good feature)
c) Being fair weather sailors, they are content with using more delicate sail cloth, lines, etc.

For me anyway, I see a yacht as a survival vehicle. You never know what weather you'll get stuck in while on a voyage. If you do get stuck in a storm, a good insurance policy is needed literally and figuratively, and rock solid rigging is part of that.

If I were in warmer, fair weather climates for a good period of time I would probably settle for a Junk rig. I really do like the way the look. For a serious voyage though I would not consider it. That's just me.

I would be interested in reading more about how well they do in storms that are routinely dished up in the North Pacific, Southern Ocean & places of the like. 50 advantages or more, if they don't hold up well in storms all those benefits go down the drain if you can't sail home.
Gentlemen,
The vessel is awash with guesswork, suppositions and misinformation. It's time to pump the bilge out.

The spectrum of junk-rigged vessels ranges from daintily-rigged daysailers to husky, go-anywhere ocean cruisers, just as it does with other rigs. I tend towards the latter with my vessel, and so far, have sailed her 80,000 miles under junk rig and junk-rig-based wing sails, in the Atlantic between Iceland and Norway in the north, and Capetown in the south; and in the Pacific between Alaska in the north and South Island NZ and Tasmania in the south. There are fairweather junk rig sailors, and there are husky, go-anywhere junk rig sailors, just as there are with other rigs. Joseph, it's your misfortune not to have crossed tacks with the latter, but they're out there, quietly and competently crossing oceans.

Of course, I've seen some bad weather. I got knocked down in the S Atlantic, and broke some dinner plates and wine glasses. By way of contrast, do you recall how Jeanne Socrates got knocked down approaching Cape Horn, broke her boom (good quality Najad yacht, with a good quality rig from Selden Mast), and had to put into Ushuaia and get a new boom sent from Sweden?

I spent my working life designing hardware for bermudan rigs, so I am well aware of how poorly made and "down-to-a-price" the lower grades of production bermudan rig can be, and how unfit for serious offshore use. And of course, at the other end of the spectrum, how fit for purpose a bermudan rig can be, if money is no object. Having done a lot of fatigue testing of rigging components, I know full well how short-lived the bermudan mast's rigging can be. In contrast, an unstayed mast, if it's designed right, and built right, is long-lived and invulnerable to mis-handling and lack of maintenance.

My preference, for a vessel that is to go anywhere, will remain for a rig with unstayed mast(s), carrying strongly-built and easily-handled sails in which the stresses are low, being well distributed over strong spars. What rig would that be? I think you know the answer to that.
 
David, many thanks for chiming in. Do post some pics and/or videos of this beast of a Junk rig you describe. I figured there would be some out there and I'm anxious to learn more.

Also, I'm curious as to the weight penalty on the boat with the unstayed mast. The hull & deck fittings must be very stout and probably added a bit of extra weight, no? In any case, that's more of a racing concern and if cruising is the main mission then who cares about the extra weight.

Do post info about your boat.

Cheers,

Joseph
 
David, many thanks for chiming in. Do post some pics and/or videos of this beast of a Junk rig you describe. I figured there would be some out there and I'm anxious to learn more.

Also, I'm curious as to the weight penalty on the boat with the unstayed mast. The hull & deck fittings must be very stout and probably added a bit of extra weight, no? In any case, that's more of a racing concern and if cruising is the main mission then who cares about the extra weight.

Do post info about your boat.

Cheers,

Joseph
I did put a short video that I took in the middle of the Tasman Sea onto YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nO3BTM7NAc
(I had a ketch soft wing sail rig then)

I'll attach a photo of the rig I sailed from NZ to Alaska. The sail is of 9oz/sq yd Haywards Sunwing UV protected polyester sailcloth - the best, but no longer in production. The mast is a tapered aluminium alloy tube, 220mm dia at the deck. The yard, battens and boom are of CFRP.

The unstayed mast is heavier than an equivalent stayed mast, but when you add in the standing rigging, the total turns out much the same. Also, the CG of the unstayed mast is lower. An unstayed rig stresses the hull much less than a stayed rig, with its massive compression and tensions, but the stresses are of course in the horizontal direction, not the vertical. All this means in practice is that some local reinforcement is needed in the heel and partners areas, but in general, any boat that is fit to put to sea needs little alteration for an unstayed rig, apart from solving difficulties with the accommodation layout.

My boat is a 35ft David Thomas designed custom ocean cruiser to my specification, laid out for a couple to cruise for long periods to faraway places. She has bilge-boards and shoal draught, but still gets into CE category A.
 

Attachments

  • Tystie 3.JPG
    Tystie 3.JPG
    89.9 KB · Views: 948
David, thanks a bunch for the additional info. Very nice custom boat. Wing sail & carbon components no question increase performance and durability. I have read a bit about wing sails on other threads. No question they are an improvement over a typical junk rig...much improved air foil shape. The construction is very similar to a light aircraft so I'm sure they handle high winds better too.

No question your boat is in a different class than the typical junk rig, and it cruises along quite well too.

Thanks again for sharing! :)
 
There have been over 700 Colvin Gazelles built, the majority of them junk rigged. Many have done a circumnavigation. Then there are Tom's other junk rig designs. Including the one I'm getting close(r) to finishing. So thinking that junk rigs are primarily for fair weather sailors is about as applicable as saying Marconi rigs are because most of the boats doing the milk run around the globe are marconi rigged and never go outside 35N to 35S. So what?

All or nearly all of Tom Colvin's boats are stayed rigs. They're not heavily stressed rigs, the stays are more to keep the mast in column and stop whipping in a seaway. I've read all the arguments pro/con stayed & unstayed rigs, I prefer a stayed rig. Having seen up close the masts in a Benford BADGER design and knowing how long it took the builder to make them, I seriously, seriously doubt my masts & standing rigging are going to be heavier and for sure they're faster to make.

But - whatever.... I plan on being a fair weather sailor. All I have to do is convince Hughie to shine on me & send the winds from the direction I'd like. Threads like this are pretty pointless anyway, it's like arguing about the advantages of a monohull versus a multihull. Nothing is perfect, there never is a 'best' choice, it all depends on what you want to do combined with how much you have to spend, then toss in a strong dash of irrational emotion to season the mix......

PDW
 
Hi pdwiley, agree on most points. Each boat has to be looked at individually. No question there are those that break the typical mold and stand out as good design examples.

My only disagreement is of the value of this thread. It's probably the best list on pro's & con's of a junk rig, which inevitably opened comments for other rig comparisons. I don't know about the others but I'm fascinated by the unstayed masts with wing sails. Eric Sponberg's boats really stand out and are not too far off aerodynamically than a refined airfoil off an aircraft. We're seeing similar foil shapes on lighter racing yachts.

OK good info here.

Fair winds /) /) /)

Joseph
 
David, many thanks for chiming in. Do post some pics and/or videos of this beast of a Junk rig you describe. I figured there would be some out there and I'm anxious to learn more.

Also, I'm curious as to the weight penalty on the boat with the unstayed mast. The hull & deck fittings must be very stout and probably added a bit of extra weight, no? In any case, that's more of a racing concern and if cruising is the main mission then who cares about the extra weight.

Do post info about your boat.

Cheers,

Joseph
 
In 1971 I bought and sailed an Ericson 35' fin keel marconi sloop. I sailed it from S California to Hawaii to Seattle to S. California. It liked to sail on its ear, with the stanchion bases under water. It had a tall double spreader rig. We sailed from Hawaii to Seattle in September to October. It was very difficult to control surfing down 25 to 30 foot waves. The Westerlies snuck up on us, and we didn't dare to round up to reef because the waves were high, steep, and breaking on the top 20 to 25'. We didn't want to get rolled.

We sold the Ericson and finished out a Skookum 34' traditional cruising hull designed by Ed Monk Senior, with a junk schooner rig designed by Blondie Hasler. I specified a LOT of sail area, 740 sq. ft. We rarely used the motor, which is why I gave Batwing only a two cylinder diesel and a two bladed fixed prop.

We sailed the junk rigged boat, Batwing, from Seattle, across the S. Pacific, and on to Hong Kong, starting in 1975.

I have read the whole thread. Every comment made by every poster who is inexperienced in sailing with a junk rig is wrong. Completely, totally, absolutely, unequivocally wrong, with one possible exception - Batwing tacked through 107 degrees. If a poster thought its ability to sail to windward was worse, he was wrong about that, too. Batwing was my boat's name, and it still voyaging. Buyer number 2 sailed it around the world. Buyers number 3 sailed it from Seattle to South America. It still has its original masts. The modern junk rig, with camber either from cut panels or from hinges in the masts, is the match of the average cruising marconi rig.
 
Last edited:
Hi pdwiley, agree on most points. Each boat has to be looked at individually. No question there are those that break the typical mold and stand out as good design examples.

My only disagreement is of the value of this thread. It's probably the best list on pro's & con's of a junk rig, which inevitably opened comments for other rig comparisons. I don't know about the others but I'm fascinated by the unstayed masts with wing sails. Eric Sponberg's boats really stand out and are not too far off aerodynamically than a refined airfoil off an aircraft. We're seeing similar foil shapes on lighter racing yachts.

OK good info here.

Fair winds /) /) /)

Joseph
 
This thread consists almost entirely of people airing their prejudices and sharing their complete ignorance of a subject on which they are totally ignorant. I am astonished that the posters aren't too ashamed to try to pass off their speculations for actual knowledge.
 
I'm curious how people think the junk rig compares to and unstayed carbon catboat rig with a wishbone boom as on a wyliecat or nonsuch.

I've never sailed a junk rig but sail all different kinds of modern catboats a lot, and looking through these "50 advantages," all seem to apply to that rig also except two. Reefing is easier on a junk rig, but with a modern catboat you don't really even need to reef until ~40 knots because it's self depowering, so I feel like there's more advantage to the catboat rig there- most of the carbon mast catboat owners I've met have never reefed before, and don't bother even leaving the reef points tied in. The other one that seems like a clear advantage to the junk rig is that sail shape is simpler, so you can do it yourself, modern catboat sail shape is complex to the point that even most professional sailmakers won't take it on, and that coupled with the sail being so big means the sail is very expensive, and not replaceable in remote locations.

However, I see modern catboats keeping up around race courses with modern fractional rig sloops flying big spinnakers, and they're generally so fast on every point of sail that they have to place the non-spinnaker catboats with the spinnaker sloop rigs to make it fair. It could be just that they're less common, but I've certainly never seen a junk rigged boat beating modern ultralight sloop rigged sportboats with big crews to the windward mark, but (contrary to stereotypes) modern catboats seem to point higher than sloop rigs and carry more sail area upwind, so they're usually first around the windward mark in most conditions, but slower downwind in light air, having no spinnaker.

An interesting experiment in the catboat vs sloop performance is the SageCat 15 by Sage Marine, they made identical hulls in sloop and cat rigs with approximately the same sail area (sloop had 6 more sq ft), and found that the rotating mast catboat pointed much higher, and was overall faster on every point of sail than a fixed mast stayed sloop, given that the sloop was still a non-spinnaker. The catboat also retained ability to steer and sail in much lighter air than the sloop. That said, the Wylie 39 is also in both rigs, and the sloop has a lower PHRF rating... but hard to tell what that really means because the sloop carries a large spinnaker, and the cat rating is for racing in spinnaker classes without a spinnaker.

For cruising, windward performance in a wide range of wind speeds and sea states is what I care about most, because it's a safety thing- I usually sail without an engine, or with just a small electric motor for entering and exiting harbors in no wind, and need to stay very far off of lee shores.
 
Thanks for the food for thought; very interesting.
 
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making any potentially dangerous or financial decision, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.

  • Back
    Top