The square wheel syndrome

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by gonzo, Sep 1, 2020.

  1. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

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    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  2. A II
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    That's an auto gyro rig, it's not connected to a water prop, the air blades are harvesting energy from the wind, and also provide the propulsion of the boat, don't think that works directly upwind.

    Quote (bottom of the linked page)

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  3. A II
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    That's a Darrieus wind turbine, the boat equipped with it connected to a water prop will sail in any direction of the wind, but not fast is my guess.
     
  4. A II
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  5. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Good heavens. An argument over whether a vessel can sail dead on into the wind.

    No helmsman will testify that he can deadhead his vessel into the wind because even he knows that the wind does not know; so the conversation is theoretical jibberish to no good end.

    So, suppose for a moment Gonzo is wrong and the vessel can sail head on into the wind. It can't do so well; at all. The battle at the helm is endless and not fun.

    For all the times I tried to motor into the wind trolling; this argument reminds me of all the times the wind won.
     
  6. A II
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    Re post #31 and #33: While I think it could work, the pic itself looks to be photo shopped...

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    Often used as a general catamaran image on the webIsland Ting — Missing 1 - 2 - 3 — general cat pics — etc., etc...
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  7. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    If we expand the definition of 'sailing' to include any wind driven vessel with or without sails, then we can reasonably talk about making headway (sailing) dead into the wind. I'm not inclined to look at 'sailing', in the context of the original conversation, in that way, but we do use the term sail to include the movement of powerboats. A lot like we use 'fire' to refer to the discharge of any weapon, including a bow and arrow, when the origin was original to the lighting of the fuse in a cannon.

    I doubt there are any members here who believe a sail powered boat can make headway directly into the wind. Yet, upwind headway can be made by sailing just off the wind.

    "So, suppose for a moment Gonzo is wrong and the vessel can sail head on into the wind. It can't do so well; at all. The battle at the helm is endless and not fun."
    In the case of a wind turbine driven vessel, the more directly into the wind the boat sails, the stronger the apparent wind gets. As a function of drive over friction, both are more or less adjustable, within limits.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  8. A II
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    We're just having fun...

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    Videos of working test models of wind turbine powered boats going directly upwind were posted on the thread (like eg. in post #28), that's a good end of it for me, unless someone comes up with new stuff and/or more info and/or practical applications of it and/or more arguments about it, we just hang out here to discuss that, and maybe even learn something from it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  9. Will Gilmore
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    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    Good catch.
    :oops:
    Serves me right.

    -Will (Dragonfly)
     
  10. A II
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    No problem Will, the clouds as seen through the rotor just didn't look right to me, and there's a weird shadow on the bottom of the rotor mast, so I thought let's dig into that, from that the original pic showed up for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  11. A II
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    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  12. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    In that case, if you use "sailing" as a synonym for the proper term "steaming", it can be powered directly into the wind. That is, as long as it is not wind powered, which is what some people claim. I would love to be proven wrong, but none of them can show me a boat sailing by wind power directly upwind. It can't be that hard to convert a sailing dinghy.
     
  13. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I have to confess though, that my latest invention is a square wheel on one side of the axle and a pentagonal on the other side. The idea is that vibration should be less because they will not be harmonics between the wheels.
     
  14. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    I hope your wheels are powered by rocking magnets. If not, read the thread and learn: Wave force induced power proa magnetic propulsion https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/wave-force-induced-power-proa-magnetic-propulsion.64415/ I am afraid tough about the uneven power pulses, maybe you should change to hexagonal wheels.
     

  15. Zilver
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    Zilver Junior Member

    Did you see the video in post #28 ? Does that count or does it have to be a dinghy ? I thought it is convincing and intersting (because it is so counter-intuitive) .
    Cheers, Hans
     
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