The revisionist mythology of Wharram

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by waterbear, Dec 8, 2023.

  1. Hanneke Boon
    Joined: Dec 2023
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    Location: UK

    Hanneke Boon New Member

    In the early years of sailing our Pahi 63 Spirit of Gaia I took detailed notes of sailing performance in many different sailing conditions and assembled these into a kind of pictorial polar diagram. See the two diagrams attached, made in 1994.

    We sailed Spirit of Gaia round the world from 1992 to 1998. We encountered a 3 day severe gale when sailing from New Zealand to Fiji. We took the increasingly huge waves from the starboard side and continued sailing under storm jib. We were very happy with the fact the boat was lashed together and could sustain the shockloads of waves hitting the hullsides, also the high platform clearance (no slamming), and the wash- through decks when a huge wave crest broke right across the whole boat.

    Later in the voyage we sailed up the Red Sea and spent 12 days non-stop tacking to windward in Force 7-8-9 head winds and around 4m high steep seas. We were heavily reefed with 3 - 4 reefs in the Foresail and a reefed Staysail. The Mainsail was never used at all. Maximum speed we could sustain was around 5 - 6 Knots as the seas were so violent. Angle between tacks on the chart averaged around 120 degrees and we made good on average 50-60Nm every 24 hours (not counting the times we had to heave to when conditions were extreme). The whole voyage we were using our self made self steering windvane, which worked excellently. We were the only sailing boat that sailed up the Red Sea, all others used motors. We were very glad of the (lashed) flexibility of our boat as at times half a hull was in the air as a hole appeared between waves. During the whole round the world voyage the only things that failed were the outboard motor electrics and the electronic wind instrument, the two things we did not design and build ourselves. See 2 photos taken on Red Sea voyage.

    For those quoting numbers, the beam lashings have a safety factor of 10, each lashing has 6 full turns of 10mm rope and has around 30 ton breaking strain (there are 6 crossbeams). We use nylon rope for the lashings at bow and stern where there is the most movement. Nylon rope can stretch and come back. This boat is now 31 years old and the plywood hull structure and laminated Wooden I-beams are still perfect. The lashings have been replaced twice, making the boat as good as new.

    Many opinions thrown about by people about V-eed hulls being no good etc. refer to roughly built early Wharram Classic designs, often having blunt stems and big gaps round sterns and rudders, causing bad windward performance. For the last 40 years the Wharram hulls, underwater streamlining and sail rigs have improved and they sail as well to windward and are faster than most cruising monohulls. A well designed V-eed hull has qualities most people do not understand. You need to spend time sailing on one to come to appreciate their kind sea motion.

    Gaia performance_1.jpg Gaia performance_2.jpg Gaia performance_2.jpg
    S143-13.jpg S143-16.jpg
     
  2. waterbear
    Joined: Mar 2016
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    waterbear Senior Member

    I have returned, but just to make two clarifications. First, I made an error, RW did not use the term "extreme load" to refer to anything, and also did not refer to the Australian rule. I was misquoting his article on crossbeams.

    Second, perhaps you are not understanding my use of FoS. In my attempt to estimate lashing stretch, I made the (apparently naive) assumption that the Australian rule for catamaran beam strength has some relationship to actual loads encountered at sea. I also made the assumption that the Australian rule for catamaran beam strength has some margin of safety built in, and that loads encountered at sea would be less than loads that would be produced in the rule scenario. I could have made the assumption that there is no margin of safety, but I didn't think that was a good assumption because it doesn't make for a good rule. So, when I chose a factor of 2, it was the assumption that loads encountered at sea are 1/2 the loads encountered in the rule. I could have chosen a higher factor, but doing so would increase the risk of underestimating the stretch of the lashings. I didn't want to do that just to further my argument. The use of an FoS of 2 is not in any way an assertion that 2 is a good number.

    I was also not making any judgement on beam strength or lashing strength, or safety factors for either of those. It was just a back of the napkin guess at the reversible stretch in a beam lashing.

    At the scrapyard?
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2023
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  3. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    I think Gonzo gave a good example of extreme load.
    It is traditional for boats and designs to be refined over time and developed to withstand the conditions they encounter. I would sail anywhere on a Wharram and feel safe. I spent time on a ridiculously overloaded Hina and came away impressed.
    I like the way the lashings spread the load out over a wide contact patch. The boats have developed into an attractive fleet.

    The side stringers on a classic stiffen the panels without intruding as much into the interior, while adding a slight amount of weight it is a useful compromise for a narrow boat. It also saves time cutting notches into the frames since flat stock is used between the stringers. A good solution for the time when they were designed for pre epoxy building. I've saved a set of Raka plans for my end of the world home store materials only boat. I will add the new beams and lashings though.

    I think sitting around and deciding to critique somebody you didn't meet and talk about boats you haven't tried isn't productive. I'd suggest the answer is to go sailing and see what speaks to you then.
     
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  4. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . _ _ _ . . . _ _ _

    Are you starting to catch-on what the point of the thread is now?
    I'll give you some clues: clarification, understanding, compassion...
     
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  5. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Indeed, but that is what Codes/Rules are for, to take the "guesswork" out of deign, and to provide a quantitative approach, rather than a qualitative. The actual values one yields and their"actual" loads, is secondary, in that sense. Since it is all about providing guidance that anyone can use on any vessel. Otherwise where does one start? And, in general, such codes/rules take into account a database of information, which one does not have access to either.

    I was merely adding a bit of meat to your bone of a comment, that's all :p

    Who knows?? :eek:
     
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  6. tane
    Joined: Apr 2015
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    Location: austria

    tane Senior Member

    "... a man who is more than willing to bend the truth in order to promote himself..."
    now in that he is absolutely unique! NOBODY, particularly no man would do this...
     
  7. tane
    Joined: Apr 2015
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    Location: austria

    tane Senior Member

    Having built my Tangaroa MkI (77-81) / rtw-ed her (81-88, including Red Sea) I am probably more qualified than most here to give a valid opinion (fwiw: 2more rtw-s plus Brittany-Tahiti followed in monohulls)
    THE big achievement of JW for me was: he marketed his designs in a way that gave me, a (then) 20 year old Austrian, that had never been to sea, had no connection with sailing, boatbuilding, navigation,... cruising-whatsoever, the confidence, that he could, given enough perseverance & diligence & applying himself 150%, build a boat that would enable him to follow his dreams of sailing to the "South Pacific" (remember: these were the 70s, when not everything was hackneyed on YT), which, all the more so in landlocked Austria ("in the forest") was extremely "exotic". (nobody I knew apart from the handful of other amateur boatbuilders I was acquainted with thought me anything than an idiot, wasting his time & money)
    JW was a pioneer, he trod successfully were few did, he helped many make their dreams come true. If lesser men than he want to besmirch his memory with "facts" like that his original "Tangaroa" was inspired by some boat other that he claims - they tell more about themselves than about JW!
    That said I still have conclude:
    significantly better boats can be built with the same investment of money & labour
    ANY self-built boat is an irrational endeavour, given today's secondhandboat market
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2023
  8. tane
    Joined: Apr 2015
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    Location: austria

    tane Senior Member

    attributed to JW:
    "Grey people go everywhere & spoil everything!"
    ...waterbear...? Did he mean you?
     
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  9. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    You nailed it there very well @tane with your post above re your Tangaroa.
    I remember seeing lots of Wharram cats, of all sizes, arriving here (Barbados) from across the Atlantic in the mid and late 70's, and in the early 80's a pal had a Tangaroa (ketch rig, with sprit sails) - I sailed on her, and was smitten - she was definitely on my dream boat list at the time.
    But as Tane says, there are better designs available now, and the only reason for building a new boat now would be to have a boat exactly how you want it (and hang the cost), as it is invariably much less expensive in the long run to buy something second hand.
    It was still very viable to build your own boat up until probably 20 - 25 years ago, as the cost of second hand boats was still 'high' (relatively), and depreciation of value was much less - but since then the market has been fairly saturated with Benjenbavs et al for the charter market, and when these were / are sold off after 5 or 10 years, they help to bring down the prices of other similar sized boats.
    And boats don't get scrapped at the same rate as cars - fibreglass is very long lasting...... :)
     
  10. nota
    Joined: Sep 2012
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    nota Junior Member

    YES millionaires can build better carbon/fiber mega cats like the gun boats now

    Wharram built boats to show people of far less wealth how they could do it for far less

    agree the used market has bargains far cheaper right now then building from scratch

    I do note the builder's of that style carbon mega buck boats KEEP GOING BANKRUPT
    AND THE BOATS DO FLIP on occasions

    AND PERSONAL economics forbids the costs of maintenance of such a beast
    while I was able to own a Wharram 31 with an old surplus F27 al rig while out of work
    and even sold her at a small profit

    but I am the odd guy who can live without air con and all most the other white man's MAGIC
    as a native friend termed most of the high cost high maintenance el -tricks TOO MANY LIVE-ABOARDS can't live without
    ON AN ANCHORED BOAT FOR YEARS 74 until after ANDREW WE SURVIVED 4 OF 8 LINES HELD
    one can't have too many anchors or lines out in a cat 5 and we guess lucky but both my home and a 24ft sail boat
    both were in place and afloat
    the Wharram did also prior to my owning it but lost the rig and wound up on an island upside down but in one piece
     
  11. Basileus
    Joined: Nov 2024
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    Location: NA

    Basileus Junior Member

    I'm sorry if this tangent is off topic here but when you say 20-35k for epoxy do you mean actual epoxy of just resin in general? I'm considering building one myself and am wondering if vinyl ester would reduce that cost estimate?
     
  12. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Boat Builder

    Yup. I spent 35k on resins and hardeners.

    I wetbagged the job. Wetbagging is wasteful as processes go. I estimate my losses at 25%. This means $8500 in the bin.

    Infusion would reduce the cost; the trouble is, I already had cores made for vac bagging. I suspect losses of more like 10% if you setup special dispensers…maybe conical bottoms (and infusion) if not clear.

    I am recommending to anyone building to build ply, light glass, and epoxy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2024
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  13. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    I here you there. The foam may be cheap some places but epoxy isn't.
     
  14. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    For foam sandwich Vinylester is a brilliant resin. Faster gell and cure times make for much faster and time efficient building.
     
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  15. Basileus
    Joined: Nov 2024
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    Basileus Junior Member

    Im interested in building a composite Skoota myself but with polyester resin and mostly nidacore. I want to be able to get in and around very shallow areas and the possibilities of rot mixed with the thinness of the plywood and laminate makes me worried about scratches and impacts taking their tole on it and leading the boat to an early grave. Im a super new member so I cant send direct messages yet but Id really like to be able to talk to you in depth some time about building yours.
     

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