The Perfect Sharpie

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Brasstom, Jul 23, 2008.

  1. Brasstom
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Brasstom Dedicated Boat Dreamer

    Help! I need someone to confirm I am not crazy...

    For many years I've been enamored with this little Sharpie, The Coot. The plans are old, from the 1940's, and are provided for free by Dave Gray of PolySails.

    I have never gotten over how beautiful this boat is, her lines are sharp and classy, old school to be sure! I've wanted to build her forever, but never had the time, money, space... (you all know how it is...)

    Anyway, I decided I'd build a model of her this summer. Since the construction details are a bit antiquated I decided to see if I couldn't draw out some lines, copying the design to a more basic layout.

    PROBLEM... The plans list this boat as being 22ft LOA... But the drawings shown just plain don't back that up. Neither the "1ft" key on page two nor any of the other drawings show her as coming out to 22ft, especially if you include the boom (which you should!) and rudder.

    Am I just being a dunce... does anyone else get something that makes more sense?

    Maybe she's just too good to be real :rolleyes:


    Attached Files:

  2. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Sorry Tom, but boom and rudder aren't included in the LOA becouse they aren't part of the hull.
    LOA is often used to calculate some factors describing the boat in a way the results are comparerable with the particular factors of others boats.
  3. Brasstom
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    Brasstom Dedicated Boat Dreamer

    Well go figure... I was looking at a definition (both in a book and online) that defined LOA as "Length overall. The total length of a boat including bowsprits or other items projecting from the bow or the stern of the boat." The first thing I did was look it up, so as to avoid looking as foolish as I feel now! :) That definition made sense to me just because, well... we know a Marina would include them in fees!

    So the LOA is from the Stern to the Bow, but only components of the main hull? In that light re-measuring Coot might make more sense... I'll have to give it a try.
  4. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    On the third page of drawings, "frame & deck beam locations" add up the measurements from stem post to stern post, they come out at 22'. 17 stations spaced 15" plus 9" is 264 inches or 22'.
  5. Brasstom
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Brasstom Dedicated Boat Dreamer

    That's my point though... the frames and all DO indeed add up to 22 ft, but do not include the stern post (bottom left of the same page) that gives it that clipper-style bow. By my best reckoning that adds another 1'6", and that STILL doesn't include the boom...

    Either I misunderstand the definition of LOA (always possible...) or this boat just isn't LOA 22' ...or I'm still reading something wrong!
  6. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    This is just a syntax issue. LOA can mean a number of things, but generally it's the length "between perpendiculars". A hull is divided into sections. These sections define the hull volume. The perpendiculars usually don't include, cutwaters, bow sprits, rudder heads, etc. These are "bolt ons" and have nothing to do with the volumemetric elements of the hull. Often this measurement is used as the LOA, even though it's not especially accurate.

    "Spared length" would include the bow sprit and any boom over hang. It would be nice if LOA was indeed just that, but don't take it literally.

    There are many measurements like this, such as LOD (Length On Deck) which could be measured from the inside of the bulwarks or include the rail caps, both producing different measurements.

    Coot is a cute little double ender, though I'd be hesitant to call her a "sharpie" as most of her dimensions and arrangements don't conform to traditional sharpies.

    She's a pretty fat little girl and certainly could use an updated set of plans. The file planked bottom could easily be plywood, which would be easier to build, likely cheaper and much more watertight. Also skipping those deadeyes in favor of turn buckles so you're not having to adjust them every time you sail her. There are many elements of the build that could benefit from a "modernizing", without ruining the charm and flavor of this classic old gal.
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member Ted Brewer has a friendship design on his web page that is close to this
    Ive been looking at hundreds of plans in preparation for building a retirement vessel
    and was planning a friendship as a practice run for reawakening my skills after years out of the water
    you might check it out
    it could be scaled down a the size you like

    I dont mean to sound like a add for T.B. but Ive looked and looked
    and am continually impressed with this guy's work

  8. PsiPhi
    Joined: May 2007
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    PsiPhi Newbie

    I had a play with the plans you can download.
    The distance from Frame 0 (the Stem) - without the bowsprit to the last frame, the transom, without the rudder, is 264 inches (22 feet).
    To me, knowing little about the subject, this would equate to the LOD.

    It would be great if we had a set of (updated) plans to build this boat using modern methods and materials.
    Just to inspire people I think I put it into a Hulls file and see where it takes us.
  9. PsiPhi
    Joined: May 2007
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    Location: Queensland

    PsiPhi Newbie

    coot Hulls file

    OK, so I had a play, and a first cut file for Hulls is attached.

    The quality of the scans (or my eyesight) is not great, I really only have the frame positions.
    The table of offsets is, obviously, a part of the file, but the valid ones, i.e. not guessed ones, are...

    Station | Z pos.
    Number | in inches
    . 0 ... | ... 0
    . 1 ... | ... 60
    . 2 ... | ... 150
    . 3 ... | ... 196*
    . 4 ... | ... 219
    . 5 ... | ... 264
    *because hulls only allows 3 intermediatory stations, this one was ommitted from the table in the attached file.

    Does anyone have the resources, time, expertise, whatever, to elaborate on this?

    Note: attched file coot.txt will need to be renamed to coot.hul to use it.

    Attached Files:

  10. Bullyfahrer
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Bullyfahrer New Member

    Hi Folks, this is a post from germany...I also found the "coot" at the poly sails side. I plan to build it in original size, but from the plans there, one page (32) seems missing. @Brasstorm, you planned to construct a model. Did you do it? @all, can anybody help?

    Thanks and greetings, Peter
  11. Alcudia
    Joined: May 2010
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    Alcudia Junior Member

    Possibility of Coot Kit

    Like lots of other people i am really taken by the 1945 (i think) design of the 22' Sharpie "Coot" and i am thinking of building one. like lots of others, if my research is anything to go buy, have tried to find updated plans with no success.


    I happen to be in a position that, if i go to the expense of having plans drafted and modernised; and going through the legals etc to not breach copyright, i have production facilities to produce 10 or 20 hull "kits". this would be a one off exercise and i have, as of now, no idea of the cost - it would be "reasonable" though. The materials cost is a pittance compaired to the Drafting, full scale printing and man and machine hours for cutting and putting it simply it makes no difference weather i load 1 sheet of ply or 10.

    Initially im hoping to gauge the likely response and any potential takers. i thought it would make a nice sub forum for a group of like minded people to be simultaniously building the same boat - especially one that has generated such interest for 65 years!

    Please let us know your thoughts.

  12. Brasstom
    Joined: Jun 2005
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    Brasstom Dedicated Boat Dreamer

    progress report!

    Alcudia, anything ever come of this???
  13. luckystrike
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    Location: Germany

    luckystrike Power Kraut


    I can not understand the hype around this boat. Its a 1945 design and nobody knows how the sailing qualities are nor performance nor comfortability. I had the same thing when I began to redesign the "Egret" sharpie. During my research i found out that all the replicas that followed the very "traditional" plans of the woodenboat magazine were poor overall sailers. That surprised me because the original designer commodore R. Monroe praised her sailing qualities.

    I think its the same phenomenon with the use of historic cars. Everybody loves them when they are out on the streets in sunny wether or are standing on the parking ground, but nobody wants to drive them on the way to work when its stormy and raining. Because these cars are unsave and uncomfotable to drive. The cross is very satisfying. I think, a modern car with classic lines, like the "BMW Mini", the "VW New Beetle" or the "Fiat 500" has a good look, charme and good handling qualities too.

    To build a boat ist a lot of work and money. When you decide to build one please have a look on sailing qualities and a functional and comfortable interior. If it has this not you will have no fun when sailing it! I like classic lines a lot and the simplicity of sharpies in particular, but nobody gets hurt if you have a good performing and safe sailing boat.

    If you want to have a look at my sharpie design project see the "30' Plywood Sharpie" Thread here on the Forum. My part starts with post no #467.

    Grreetings from the North Sea Coast, Michel
  14. Alcudia
    Joined: May 2010
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    Alcudia Junior Member

    Did i ever get anyware with this??

    Well its not dead int he water- excuse the pun - but its had to take a back seat due to finances. Like everyone else int he world in skint at the moment - LOL.

    Im living in Bulgaria where labor is very very cheep (to give you some idea - to have a German trained sprayer respray my classic car, primer, colour, 3 coats clear, flat and polish - $400) so when i get time im going to look at the fesability of setting up a small workshop to produce one and then possibly kits.

    But in all honesty its 18months away at the minimum - sadly..........

  15. Hughmarch
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    Location: Lake Tahoe

    Hughmarch New Member

    22' Coot

    The boat pictured in this thread is most likely one built from plans published in 1940 by Fawcett Publications. Their "How to Build 20 Boats" # 6, described the boat, sold the blue prints and my father built it, first launched in 1942 in Lake Tahoe where it is still enjoyed 68 years later.

    The planked bottom and plywood centerboard trunk have been fibreglassed, one boom, sails and outboard replaced. The canvased decks have never leaked. It survived one severe storm only because it was the only boat in a commercial harbor that was properly moored and did not get swamped by waves breaking over the breakwater.

    Jim Emmett was credited with the Coot's design according to several publications though my Dad's copy of How to Build 20 Boats #6 has been lost. Have not been able to find a copy. Still have the original blue prints which need to be copied as they got a bit worn around the edges. My job, as a seven year old, was to sweep the construction sawdust off the living room floor into the fireplace, fetch tools, and stay out of the way the rest of the time. That Coot is like a family member that seems ageless.
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