The perfect Passagemaker IV, Equipment

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by apex1, Sep 3, 2010.

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Please choose after reading the threads! multiple choice possible.

  1. I need a second Radar

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  2. One Radar is enough

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  3. A intergrated bridge system would be nice

    10 vote(s)
    66.7%
  4. Inmarsat is a must on passages (how would I post on bd.net?)

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  5. I am fine with SSB radio at sea and shouting in port.

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  6. A bus system is sensible and desired

    11 vote(s)
    73.3%
  7. Aircondition in all rooms

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  8. AC in sleeping quarters only

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  9. AC in living quarters only

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  10. Walk in fridge/freeze is a must

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  11. A household fridge is enough, I like my beer lukewarm

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  12. Hydraulic stabilizers are my choice (for Trawler)

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  13. The Trawler does fine with paravanes

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  14. I need a sternthruster

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  15. first forgotten item

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  16. second

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 1,896
    Likes: 71, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 739
    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Richard,

    I think the problem with generating a debate on this is that given the construction cost of the vessel the rest of the equipment cost is pretty small change. The price of the second radar for instance even at $10,000 is probably close to or less than a tank of fuel. It really just isn't worth stressing about so it gets added for completeness if nothing else. The same can be said for the rest of the equipment you asked about... I can imagine any number of people not caring about having the whole boat air conditioned, but to be honest I can't imagine a 70+ foot power boat without it being sucessfull in the modern market place. Though it might be interesting to offer the boat without it as an option.

    As for specific equipment suggestions...

    A FLIR camera can make a huge difference when navigating at night...

    Forward looking sonar I have never used, but sounds like a god send to entering a strange anchorage at night. Particularly some of the ones in the Bahammas where the charts were last updated 100 years ago or more.



    I think the better question is what is your budget for an electronics package, and what do you see as the build cost of the vessel? Are we working with a For sale price of $3 million and a electronics budget of 300,000K or a For sale price of $10 million and a electronics budget of 1 million?

    With FLIR cameras ranging from 20K for a pretty good set up sold to the military and police to over 100K used on some of the larger mega yachts the range on these systems is pretty wide and knowing what the expected budget is would be helpful.



    On another issue...

    There should be pre-layed cable race ways from the expected mounting points of equipment to any bridge, as well as extra power lines already run to a nearby distribution point (the Buss systems eliminates this as a seperate need of course). So that when new equipment is added or old stuff modified rewiring and routing of cables is already ready.

    A single raw water through hull with take offs via a manifold. So that the entire system can be closed with a single easily accessed valve. And to the extent it is possible the same done with water discharged from inside the vessel (as opposed to run off on deck).

    A reasonably sized work room, complete with tool storage, shelving and drawers for spare parts, and a work bench large enough to actually do work on, 36"x24" at least. Ventalation capable of removing fumes created while using solvents, or soldering so that a mask is not mandatory.

    A fuel delivery system passing through a manifold with at least 2 filters per engine. So that one of the filters can be changed while the engine operates through the second. And a fuel delivery pump capable of priming the filters. (This has saved my *** a few times in rough weather).

    A Fuel polishing system large enough to keep all of the fuel tanks on the boat in good condition at all times. It is not acceptable to only be able to maintain the active tank.

    Built in tankage for used engine oil. Nothing worse than trying to figure out where to put those 5 gallon drums of used engine oil in the brand new pristine engine room. As well as dedicated storage for new oil.

    Individually replaceable battery cells, either Surrette/Rolls of similar in design. With all boat banks using the same cell type so replacements can be carried aboard.

    Hmmm, I am sure there are some more things on my wish list....
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You describe pretty much the basic standard equipment for a capable Passagemaker, except for the camera system.
    The latter will not be installed by me. Too different the desires and budgets of a prospective client, and too broad the price and quality range. (and some export restrictions too)

    A fully integrated bridge system to commercial standards and approvals up to 10.000 tonnes. is about 150.000€, all Furuno. Not really a big issue, you are right. One mio cannot be spent on a boat of these sizes.

    The AC system, being a chilled water type (I don´t install sound amplifiers) will not be capable to have all compartements cooled at the same time, but each can be individually handled. If a client has marina sitting in Florida in mind, of course that can be considered as a extra.

    Proper fuel polishing and filtering is mandatory and comes as standard.
    Same is valid for the fuel filler cabinet, there are no deck fillers.

    I do remember some of your requirements from one year ago, when we discussed the other boat (the Supply Vessel style).

    The PML 74 would be very close to your SOR, and probably provide even a bit more.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  3. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Can you explain to me or show me pictures of a good fuel filler cabinet. That is one of the things I have to do, but don't know the correct design idea.
     
  4. srimes
    Joined: Sep 2008
    Posts: 260
    Likes: 16, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 214
    Location: Oregon

    srimes Senior Member

    Just mix it in the diesel and burn it :D


    Just kidding. Mostly. Why not burn it?
     
  5. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    You can. There will be filters to remove contaminants. I have been down this road before and the US military does it, Cat has a recommended %, some other engine manufacurers have a recommended %, as well. Some are reluctant to give a recommendation, probably for fear of losing EPA rating. It has more BTUs than diesel.
     
  6. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 1,896
    Likes: 71, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 739
    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Mydauphin,

    I will try and take some pictures next time I am on the boat of how I have it installed, but basically the fuel delivery line from the tank hits a manifold that feeds two large micron fuel filters. These filters each feed seperate 2 micron fuel filters. Once the fuel has been filtered there is another manifold that takes the output from the two sets of filters and sends it in a unified line to the engine.

    This allows a number of options:
    1) I can remove one set of filters from the system so that I can change filters without turning off the engine.
    2) It also allows me if I know I have questionable fuel to leave one set of filters out of the system until the other clogs then quickly switch to the ready filter turn off the cloged one and keep going.
    3) Operate with both sets of filters open running to reduce preassure on the pump/increase the time until the next filter change.
    4) Show off to friends with only a since fuel filter. :D

    The primary advantage of the manifold is Option 1, and the primary advantage to the multi-step filtering process is it reduces the frequence of fuel filter changes, since without the larger microm filter I have to run just the 2 micron one.
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Stumble,

    he meant FILLER, not filter!
    You don´t have a fuel filler cabinet on your boat, I bet London for a brick.

    I make a cabinet in the superstructure which has a enclosed front in the lower third. (it does not drain to the deck)
    Inside the cabinet are the filler and a vent. pipe, and the el. ground connection.The vent pipe has the same size as the filler pipe, and does not replace the common vent. It just makes high pressure pumping more convenient. It is closed after bunkering.
    In case of a overflow, the excess fuel will stay inside the lower part of the cabinet. There is a small pipe at the bottom, draining into the vent pipe. (not into the filler pipe, that would make it possible to cause overflow by pump pressure)
    I hope that was understandable.

    Do never store your working gloves or anything else inside the cabinet, never.

    BTW
    I install more filters than you Stumble.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  8. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    I make a cabinet in the superstructure which has a enclosed front in the lower third. (it does not drain to the deck)
    Inside the cabinet are the filler and a vent. pipe, and the el. ground connection.The vent pipe has the same size as the filler pipe, and does not replace the common vent. It just makes high pressure pumping more convenient. It is closed after bunkering.
    In case of a overflow, the excess fuel will stay inside the lower part of the cabinet. There is a small pipe at the bottom, draining into the vent pipe. (not into the filler pipe, that would make it possible to cause overflow by pump pressure)
    I hope that was understandable.

    Do never store your working gloves or anything else inside the cabinet, never.

    - And designers take note of the correct way to do this. Except, Richard, why does it have a drain to the vent line - isn't that asking for cantamination?
     
  9. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No Mark,

    the cabinet door is almost watertight. I did not, but one can of course use a plug.

    If there is no drainage for the spill you would have to use rags or so. Not nice.

    Regards
    Richard

    btw, I have never seen such cabinet on any other than my own yachts.
     
  10. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 4,127
    Likes: 146, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2043
    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    If the fuel does spill, it's better to have it go into the vent (thus into the tank) than for it to go overboard. I'd think one should be able to close this drain once bunkering is complete, right?
    As for contamination- you'd clean the cabinet regularly, of course, and anything that does get in would be only trace amounts compared to 10,000 L of fuel (and we're not talking about highly refined fuels, either). If you're worried about it, perhaps the drain could go to the waste oil tank instead?
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    We posted the same time Matt.

    I never cleaned the cabinet, the lower part is just part of the superstructure, there is no possible way fuel could escape as long as it is below some 100 liter one spoils. The door, as mentioned above, is pretty tight.

    Both pipes have the common caps and are closed after bunkering, of course.
    And again, the vent is not replacing the regular one! It just enhances the speed you can bunker and receives the spill.


    Regards
    Richard
     
  12. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Every boat shud have this. If a screw-up happens, the fuel is contained - I hate the whole thing of lining the freeing ports with sausages (big, round absorbs) every time one fills. The one time I saw a bad mistake happen, the sausages simply floated up on fuel and it ran under anyway. Honest-to-God containment is the way to go.
    If I cud only have the fuel I've seen vented/spilled/overflowed...
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    We should both have signed up here 25 years ago Mark! You would have known this much sooner then!...........:D
     
  14. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Where do you put it on boat? Both sides?? stern ???
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Either both sides, or at the aft end of the superstructure, if the pipes don´t get too long.
     
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